Phone stolen and lner refund

[WesternLancer]

But it does have to be for the same journey as originally booked.

Yes, I suppose I'm assuming it was a ticket to / from London perhaps (not a ticket to Brussels where the OP no longer wishes to go), so could change it to go to London and do something else there or from there, for example.

 

[AlterEgo]

But it does have to be for the same journey as originally booked.

LNER doesn't sell through tickets to Brussels. I'm guessing this was a trip to London or London (CIV).

 

[pelli]

Perhaps what has happened is that although Advance tickets are not refundable, the customer service agent saw a booking for August being asked to be refunded "well in advance" in June and applied discretion, but later realised that the booking had been changed "last-minute" just 3 weeks before the original travel date, and they would not have applied discretion to refund that booking on such short notice? (Sort of like the old trick where if you're past the cancellation deadline before a booking at a hotel or fancy deposit-taking restaurant, you instead change the booking "last-minute" to much later and then cancel the new booking "well in advance" of the new cancellation deadline for a full refund...)

Anyway, I'm still a bit confused about what happened to the tickets...

I changed the tickets from August to June so I could go earlier and booked a new booking for August 3 weeks ago. £160 was the original price of ticket they said they could refund. I paid £60 to move to August this was 3 weeks before this happened. I no longer want to travel and they agreed a refund today. And it was then they disputed as the booking had a ‘paid change in the past’ they knew this from the offset refunded even says on app then withdrew the refund!

According to this message, you bought ticket 1 for August, changed ticket 1 to June, bought ticket 2 for August, then paid to move one of the tickets to August. This cannot be correct since you would have been left with two tickets for August and none for June to travel on.

Yes but I paid to change August to June then booked a whole new booking for June. Perhaps nothing can be done and I have to take the financial hit and the topic can be closed if to confusing. I have lost a thousand pounds phone so I apologise for not making sense. I simply don’t want to go back so soon in case it happens again.

According to this mesage, you bought ticket 1 for August, paid to change ticket 1 to June, then bought ticket 2 for June. This cannot be correct, since you would have been left with two tickets for June and none for August to refund.

What exact purchases and changes did you make, and to which ticket? It seems that at the very least you made one change from August to June (to be able to "go earlier"), and one change from June to August (to be left with the ticket whose refund is being disputed).

If you changed the ticket from June to August at the same time as you bought a new ticket for (presumably a different time in) June, then perhaps you could beg LNER to reinstate the refund based on the fact that you could equally, for the same cost and with the same resulting tickets, have changed the June ticket to June and bought a fresh change-history-free one for August which would have then been refunded under their discretion - but you would need to give an exceedingly clear and concise explanation of what happened, and the request would need to be very polite as it ultimately hinges on a discretionary refund of a non-refundable advance ticket.

 

[Citybreak1]

Perhaps what has happened is that although Advance tickets are not refundable, the customer service agent saw a booking for August being asked to be refunded "well in advance" in June and applied discretion, but later realised that the booking had been changed "last-minute" just 3 weeks before the original travel date, and they would not have applied discretion to refund that booking on such short notice? (Sort of like the old trick where if you're past the cancellation deadline before a booking at a hotel or fancy deposit-taking restaurant, you instead change the booking "last-minute" to much later and then cancel the new booking "well in advance" of the new cancellation deadline for a full refund...)

Anyway, I'm still a bit confused about what happened to the tickets...


According to this message, you bought ticket 1 for August, changed ticket 1 to June, bought ticket 2 for August, then paid to move one of the tickets to August. This cannot be correct since you would have been left with two tickets for August and none for June to travel on.


According to this mesage, you bought ticket 1 for August, paid to change ticket 1 to June, then bought ticket 2 for June. This cannot be correct, since you would have been left with two tickets for June and none for August to refund.

What exact purchases and changes did you make, and to which ticket? It seems that at the very least you made one change from August to June (to be able to "go earlier"), and one change from June to August (to be left with the ticket whose refund is being disputed).

If you changed the ticket from June to August at the same time as you bought a new ticket for (presumably a different time in) June, then perhaps you could beg LNER to reinstate the refund based on the fact that you could equally, for the same cost and with the same resulting tickets, have changed the June ticket to June and bought a fresh change-history-free one for August which would have then been refunded under their discretion - but you would need to give an exceedingly clear and concise explanation of what happened, and the request would need to be very polite as it ultimately hinges on a discretionary refund of a non-refundable advance ticket.

Thanks so I decided to move the first June Booking to August and that left me with no booking. I had some regret about that and decided to rebook again for June. Sorry for the confusion. The latest from LNER is they may refund me but only a few days before as they claim it’s company policy and I may change my mind and are fit to travel. This is despite me saying I cancelled my hotel and Eurostar for this date. I posted in the other topic Eurostar refused me a refund which is ok old ticket conditions so that can be moved for free. They claim my train was cancelled but app shows it running.

I accept I have no right for a refund but 1. LNER did offer a refund and now say no, but try again a few days before. Eurostar appear to be telling lies that my train is cancelled. So I feel from a customer service point of view I have the right to complain. For example the Paris one I got a refund for I tried to get a refund more than once. Perhaps they can see I asked for refunds before and thought no? But I surely can’t be only one this happens to? The advice Eurostar gave as claim off travel insurance so yes I have went down this route but not expecting anything.

 

[island]

If given wrong information, you need to consider what you would have done if the right information was given from the outset, and if that differs from what you did given the wrong information, the train company should put matters right.

This is different to (what appears to be) your position, which is that you should be treated as though the wrong information was right.

To get down to brass tacks:

• Your phone being stolen is, whilst certainly unfortunate, irrelevant as far as LNER is concerned, as e-tickets can be reprinted or redownloaded as many times as one wishes.
• You don’t have a right to a refund for your LNER ticket.
• You don’t have a right to have your voucher refund reinstated.
• You don’t have a right to “compensation” for them telling you the wrong thing.
• If your Eurostar train is actually cancelled, which it does not seem to be, you will have a right to a refund for that.

If any of the above is unclear or you wish to query it further, I urge you to be as succinct as possible as your prolix messages so far make it very difficult to distill and understand the key points.

 

[Haywain]

Eurostar appear to be telling lies that my train is cancelled.

If you are being as clear with Eurostar as you are with us they are probably answering a completely different question to the one you are asking.

 

[Citybreak1]

If given wrong information, you need to consider what you would have done if the right information was given from the outset, and if that differs from what you did given the wrong information, the train company should put matters right.

This is different to (what appears to be) your position, which is that you should be treated as though the wrong information was right.

To get down to brass tacks:

• Your phone being stolen is, whilst certainly unfortunate, irrelevant as far as LNER is concerned, as e-tickets can be reprinted or redownloaded as many times as one wishes.
• You don’t have a right to a refund for your LNER ticket.
• You don’t have a right to have your voucher refund reinstated.
• You don’t have a right to “compensation” for them telling you the wrong thing.
• If your Eurostar train is actually cancelled, which it does not seem to be, you will have a right to a refund for that.

If any of the above is unclear or you wish to query it further, I urge you to be as succinct as possible as your prolix messages so far make it very difficult to distill and understand the key points.

Sorry I should be clear. My Paris train I had was fully non refundable under old terms. I was later refunded after some persistence. So I challenged Eurostar to say sorry you gave a refund before under these ticket conditions. They claimed the reason for the refund on Paris was the train was cancelled. The train appears to be running on the website.

 

[Haywain]

Sorry I should be clear. My Paris train I had was fully non refundable under old terms. I was later refunded after some persistence. So I challenged Eurostar to say sorry you gave a refund before under these ticket conditions. They claimed the reason for the refund on Paris was the train was cancelled. The train appears to be running on the website.

So, you got a refund of a non-refundable ticket on one occasion and you are now complaining that you're not getting the same thing on a second occasion?

 

[Citybreak1]

So, you got a refund of a non-refundable ticket on one occasion and you are now complaining that you're not getting the same thing on a second occasion?

Yes. Maybe I am expecting too much I was just a little annoyed they claimed Paris was cancelled the train but it is indeed running.

 

[Titfield]

So, you got a refund of a non-refundable ticket on one occasion and you are now complaining that you're not getting the same thing on a second occasion?

The peril of discretion being applied resulting in the customer expecting that discretion to be applied again.

 

[John R]

Yes. Maybe I am expecting too much

Yes you are. If you book a non- refundable ticket (of any description; rail, air, theatre, sport) in future you should do so with the clear understanding that it is just that.

 

[island]

Sorry I should be clear. My Paris train I had was fully non refundable under old terms. I was later refunded after some persistence. So I challenged Eurostar to say sorry you gave a refund before under these ticket conditions. They claimed the reason for the refund on Paris was the train was cancelled. The train appears to be running on the website.

You do not have an entitlement to repeated exceptions to the rules even if you were given an exception before. All you will accomplish by pushing this further is them tracing down the member of staff who made an exception for you last time and giving them a bollocking such that they don't give exceptions in the future.

 

[Citybreak1]

You do not have an entitlement to repeated exceptions to the rules even if you were given an exception before. All you will accomplish by pushing this further is them tracing down the member of staff who made an exception for you last time and giving them a bollocking such that they don't give exceptions in the future.

Yes I understand. However Eurostar now offer refunds on any new booking minus a £25 fee each leg of journey

 

[AlterEgo]

Yes I understand. However Eurostar now offer refunds on any new booking minus a £25 fee each leg of journey

So why can't you cancel and refund it? I'm still quite lost.

 

[MrJeeves]

So why can't you cancel and refund it? I'm still quite lost.

That only applies to tickets booked after the conditions change was implemented (23 April), if that has any impact on the situation, but I'd assume OP booked after this...

 

[DeverseSam]

Can we have a separate threads for LNER and Eurostar

 

[Citybreak1]

So why can't you cancel and refund it? I'm still quite lost.

It was booked under the old terms I think the policy changed in April

 

[AlterEgo]

It was booked under the old terms I think the policy changed in April

And they’re saying the train is cancelled? So why can’t you refund under that basis?

 

[Haywain]

And they’re saying the train is cancelled? So why can’t you refund under that basis?

That appears to be for a previous refund request.

 

[Citybreak1]

Not directly related to the trains but my travel insurance has failed to pay out on phone. Says it wasn’t a high enough policy. £5 I paid vs home insurance at £17. I know car insurance pays out but I have my doubts about others. I’m not sure what I can appeal insurance wise but I’m thinking I may switch home insurance providers after this failure to pay out as same company. Eurostar suggested claiming on insurance for trains but I have yet to do this.

 

[skyhigh]

If you've explained it to the insurance company as clearly as you've posted here I'm not surprised they've declined the claim, as they wouldn't have a clue what actually happened.

No insurance is going to pay out if you decided not to travel just because you'd previously had a bad experience.

 

[John R]

Not directly related to the trains but my travel insurance has failed to pay out on phone. Says it wasn’t a high enough policy. £5 I paid vs home insurance at £17. I know car insurance pays out but I have my doubts about others. I’m not sure what I can appeal insurance wise but I’m thinking I may switch home insurance providers after this failure to pay out as same company. Eurostar suggested claiming on insurance for trains but I have yet to do this.

If you are trying to claim from your insurer about the loss of your phone in the theft then there are no doubt more appropriate forums to help you out with that than one about rail ticketing disputes.

But as @skyhigh notes, the confusing way in which you express yourself is very unlikely to aid a successful claim, or indeed getting decent advice from any other forum, and I strongly urge you to think carefully about how you set out what has happened, concentrate on the issue at hand, and don’t mention anything that is not directly relevant to the claim.

 

[AlterEgo]

I ask the OP to just bullet point in chronological order what happened and why. I don’t think anyone here knows what on earth is really going on, and I’m not surprised the insurance hasn’t gone anywhere!

 

[WesternLancer]

There is an Insurance Ombudsman (part of Financial Ombudsman now perhaps) if the OP feels their claim has not been handled correctly by their insurer.

 

[Titfield]

If you've explained it to the insurance company as clearly as you've posted here I'm not surprised they've declined the claim, as they wouldn't have a clue what actually happened.

No insurance is going to pay out if you decided not to travel just because you'd previously had a bad experience.

Disinclination to travel (as it is most often described) is not covered by travel insurance.

Most policies provide a definitive wording which, paraphrased, only allows for a claim to be paid when the Foreign Office have advised against travel (due to a variety of reasons civil unrest or threat to life are the two most usually cited).

 

[GadgetMan]

Not directly related to the trains but my travel insurance has failed to pay out on phone. Says it wasn’t a high enough policy. £5 I paid vs home insurance at £17. I know car insurance pays out but I have my doubts about others. I’m not sure what I can appeal insurance wise but I’m thinking I may switch home insurance providers after this failure to pay out as same company. Eurostar suggested claiming on insurance for trains but I have yet to do this.

It appears as if you go for the cheapest available tickets/policies then expect the cover/flexibility of the more expensive options as the restrictive Ts & Cs that you agreed to shouldn't apply to you.

 

[Citybreak1]

There is an Insurance Ombudsman (part of Financial Ombudsman now perhaps) if the OP feels their claim has not been handled correctly by their insurer.

Thanks perhaps I will try that. Believe me it was fully explained if it wasn’t on the forum as it was a panic as my phone was stolen. I filed all the police emails and blocked phone details to the insurer.

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It appears as if you go for the cheapest available tickets/policies then expect the cover/flexibility of the more expensive options as the restrictive Ts & Cs that you agreed to shouldn't apply to you.

Yes. But I have said before I struggle to find a way to book refundable. Maybe on Lumo. I use LNER app to get the rewards but I can’t see anywhere on that app I can have a refundable ticket. If I could book refundable for future and I have asked and nobody has been able to direct me over the months to find that refundable ticket.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Yes. But I have said before I struggle to find a way to book refundable. Maybe on Lumo. I use LNER app to get the rewards but I can’t see anywhere on that app I can have a refundable ticket. If I could book refundable for future and I have asked and nobody has been able to direct me over the months to find that refundable ticket.

I have just tried on the LNER app to see what tickets are offered for around 1615 tomorrow from Leeds to Kings Cross (just as a sample journey - I know that your journey might well start elsewhere). The first offered is a 'Super Off-Peak Single' which by my understanding is refundable.

Broadly, the rule is that all tickets are refundable unless they're Advance tickets. If you choose to refund the (non-Advance) ticket, then there may be a fee: if your planned train is cancelled then there may be no fee.

Have a look at https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/tick...-cancelling-and-getting-a-refund-for-tickets/ for more details.

Of course Advance tickets are (normally) the cheapest ones. But being able to refund is one of the things you give up in exchange for getting the cheap ticket.

 

[Citybreak1]

I have just tried on the LNER app to see what tickets are offered for around 1615 tomorrow from Leeds to Kings Cross (just as a sample journey - I know that your journey might well start elsewhere). The first offered is a 'Super Off-Peak Single' which by my understanding is refundable.

Broadly, the rule is that all tickets are refundable unless they're Advance tickets. If you choose to refund the (non-Advance) ticket, then there may be a fee: if your planned train is cancelled then there may be no fee.

Have a look at https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/tick...-cancelling-and-getting-a-refund-for-tickets/ for more details.

Of course Advance tickets are (normally) the cheapest ones. But being able to refund is one of the things you give up in exchange for getting the cheap ticket.

This is my screen

I do Edinburgh to London with a two together railcard. I clicked a return journey but all ticket conditions say non refundable?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Jun 2024 ==

And it says this

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Jun 2024 ==

Also Eurostar offer free changes why do UK operators not do this? I might also add my current booking isn’t letting even pay to change it due to them sending a refund and cancelling. They have said I can maybe get a refund in August but we’re not very clear on it being cash/vouchers of if that particular person may also refuse refund time.

 

[skyhigh]

Believe me it was fully explained if it wasn’t on the forum as it was a panic as my phone was stolen.

Not directly related to the trains but my travel insurance has failed to pay out on phone. Says it wasn’t a high enough policy.

Before you go to the Ombudsman and waste your time, what reason did the travel insurance give for declining to pay out?

You need to carefully check your policy documents. Did the travel insurance actually include phone cover, did it cover theft?

If you paid for the bargain basement travel insurance that didn't include phone cover then of course they are not going to pay out and going to the Ombudsman will be pointless. To be blunt when it comes to tickets you seem to have bought the cheapest most restrictive version and expected all the flexibility of the more expensive option, so it wouldn't totally surprise me if you haven't actually got the cover you are claiming for.