PFs/Prosecutions vs Customer Satisfaction

[Economist]

I do browse these forums from time to time since I have an interest in the railways and one thing I have noticed is that the operators who are most frequently mentioned in the Disputes and Prosecutions area seem to get the poorest scores in the customer satisfaction surveys (with the exception of Merseyrail who seem to be near the top). Many of those near the top of the surveys (Chiltern for example) rarely seem to get mentioned here, so I assume they have a fairly reasonable approach.

I appreciate that a small minority of travellers will always try and take the proverbial, particularly in some of the networks which are fairly open (for example I recall seeing a mouthy ned on ScotRail being given the choice between a Penalty Fare and getting off at the next stop when he didn't have the money to buy on board). That said I would imagine a minority of those who are caught try and evade frequently.

I understand that those who are caught are likely to give negative feedback in the surveys which may skew results but it does seem to me as though there is at best, a mutual distrust between passengers and some TOCs. The passengers get poor reliability/service and the TOCs responsible seem to assume that everyone who gets caught is a seasoned evader. Surely this ought to change.

EDIT - Thread title changed

 

[island]

(for example I recall seeing a mouthy ned on ScotRail being given the choice between a Penalty Fare and getting off at the next stop when he didn't have the money to buy on board).

This is very unlikely to be true. First ScotRail does not issue Penalty Fares.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

I do browse these forums from time to time since I have an interest in the railways and one thing I have noticed is that the operators who are most frequently mentioned in the Disputes and Prosecutions area seem to get the poorest scores in the customer satisfaction surveys (with the exception of Merseyrail who seem to be near the top). Many of those near the top of the surveys (Chiltern for example) rarely seem to get mentioned here, so I assume they have a fairly reasonable approach.

You're making a very bold assumption here, one which I think youd struggle to sustain with evidence.
The assumption is that the frequency of posters on this forum reporting the investigation of a ticket irregularity corresponds to these same companies' approach to their customers in general.

I would suggest that the high frequency of reports on here relate to those operators who a) carry a very high proportion of short-distance commuters and who b) are making a difficult transition from, either, a cuture of little enforcement of the requirement to hold a ticket, or, the custom and practice of operating a pay-on-board policy.
We don't see as many reports from predominantly long-distance operators (East Coast, Virgin, Great Western), nor from the operator working under Scottish Law and practice, nor those who have not made the transitions (but who still suffer dreadful levels of fare evasion - e.g. ATW).

I think it is hard to assess the activities and treatment of the vast majority of travellers who do not report on here, but we can see from samples that there are many passengers detected and pursued in the London areas (both within and beyond the Oyster boundary) and elsewhere in England with high levels of local urban rail provision (Liverpool, Manchester etc.), the vast majority being for short journeys. I doubt that many of them are long distance travellers.

I'm not sure that customer relations have very much to do with it.
I have witnessed ticketless travel on my own long-distance journeys, and I'm not surprised that the passengers concerned do not subsequently appear on this forum.

EDIT - Sorry a bit of a typo in the title, should read "Prosecutions".

You can change it! Edit the original post and click "Go Advanced"

 

[Economist]

Regarding the First ScotRail one, it was a few years back, thinking about it the individual may have been offered some other sanction instead of a PF, just seemed to recall it as such but must have been something else.

I can see what you mean about some of the shorter journeys, I suppose people are tempted to chance it or they are in a hurry and think they can buy on board.

I almost got caught out when moving from a very open network (ScotRail) to Virgin/LM at New Street. Tried to buy on board and couldn't find a conductor, bought at New Street, looking back I could have very easily got a PF.

I'm surprised that so many people get caught out by Oyster, I could maybe understand clocking in on an Oyster and travelling to an area outside of the Oyster zone without realising but that's about all I can understand.

I do think the rules should be standardised a bit more, for example read the other day regarding drinking on trains on the Merseyrail/Northern networks, one being perfectly legal, the other being a criminal offence (can't recall which way round though).

Thanks DaveNewcastle for the thread name change advice.

 

[transmanche]

I do think the rules should be standardised a bit more, for example read the other day regarding drinking on trains on the Merseyrail/Northern networks, one being perfectly legal, the other being a criminal offence (can't recall which way round though).

And it's not the only place.

For example, it's perfectly legal to drink on a Southern service between Clapham Junction and Shepherds Bush (unless advertised to the contrary), but it's illegal to drink on a London Overground service between the same stations. (TfL railway bylaws apply to LO, the national Railway bylaws apply to Southern). But make sure you've finished your drink by the time you alight at Shepherds Bush, as no matter which TOC you use it's illegal to drink on that station (TfL railway bylaws apply).

 

[yorkie]

I almost got caught out when moving from a very open network (ScotRail) to Virgin/LM at New Street. Tried to buy on board and couldn't find a conductor, bought at New Street, looking back I could have very easily got a PF.

You were not eligible for a PF because
1) Scotrail do not participate in a PF scheme
2) Virgin Trains do not participate in a PF scheme
3) You boarded at an unstaffed station, I assume, and had no opportunity to buy.

I am glad you find this forum interesting, can I also interest you in our Fares Guide?

If you're really interested, you'd be welcome to join us at a complimentary fares workshop.

 

[Economist]

Thanks Yorkie, I'll make sure to take a look at the fares guide at some point, can pretty much now understand why I didn't get a PF at New Street. To be honest I don't think there is a huge amount which can be added further to this thread, since I think the original area of discussion has been covered quite thoroughly.