PF query

[Aictos]

Here's a question I've been asked and as I don't know the answer I thought I ask here....

If a station in a PF served area has TVMs which for whatever reason doesn't serve the passenger the ticket they want surely the passenger is entitled to buy their ticket at the first available opportunity?

Just wondering as the second part of the question I was asked is a RPI disputed there was a issue with the TVMs and issued the PF despite the passenger only having a note on him and the TVMs not accepting them, this is despite the TVMs not working fully all day at a staffed station ie platform staff only.

Common sense would have told this RPI to contact the platform staff to check out the passenger's story surely?

 

[yorkie]

If the TVMs are not accepting a valid payment method, which is the payment method the passenger is using, then a PF must not be issued. In practice, as you say, some inspectors just issue a PF anyway. There are insufficient safeguards in place to prevent this.

If the TVMs are not issuing the ticket the passenger requires, then the policy varies by TOC, but the NRCoC requires the passenger to buy a ticket that covers part of their journey, which should then be excessed. In practice several TOCs have been known to suggest to passengers that they should not buy a part fare ticket (e.g. Southeastern and SWT).

 

[island]

If the TVMs are not accepting a valid payment method, which is the payment method the passenger is using, then a PF must not be issued. In practice, as you say, some inspectors just issue a PF anyway. There are insufficient safeguards in place to prevent this.

This isn't quite correct.

Authorised Collectors are "encouraged to use their discretion" with passengers who have the money for their fare but not in the format that the ticketing facilities accept.

In practice I very much doubt a passenger would be issued a Penalty Fare in a situation like this, but it does seem that the rules don't explicitly prohibit it.

 

[revenueadvice]

The old "But the ticket machine wasn't working excuse." This is very contentious as if there were no facilities to buy a ticket then obviously the person should not be issued a penalty fare.

Ok so I regularly work on the gate line where the gates are closed/manned until approx 22:00. There is 2 nearby stations who's gate lines are only manned until approx 20:30.
It is amazing that before 20:30 passengers travelling from these stations manages to retain their tickets for the whole of their journey and have no issues buying a ticket but after 20:30 the passengers being losing their tickets and others couldn't buy them due to the ticket machine not working properly. When I first started the job I used a lot of "discretion" but after about 2 weeks I realised how bad the problem was and just began to penalty fare them unless I knew for sure the machine wasn't working. Some people will take a picture on their phone of the machine saying "out of service" or other times we get messages about TVM issues.

I also had a guy on a train start looking for a ticket in his wallet. Then told me he didn't buy one as the machine wasn't working....PENALTY FARE.

Or the station is gated but the reason for not having a ticket is the machine wasn't working....MG11

I guess the point I am trying to make is to the general public I can imagine that RPI's look like *******s quite a lot and there are some that are! But I think if the general public understood the scale of fare evasion and more so the amount RPI's are lied to they would have a bit more sympathy for us!

 

[Squaddie]

Unfortunately, the approach currently taken to fare evasion is nothing more than a sticking plaster solution whereas the problem requires more fundamental changes.

In theory, the solution is extremely simple: ensure that every single station on the network has sufficient ticket machines of sufficient durability, reliability and flexibility that everyone is always able to buy the ticket they need before they board a train.

Of course, there are issues of cost, and there is also the likelihood of the machines being targets of vandalism, but I'm sure that the initial investment (plus the cost of ongoing maintenance of the machine) would be worthwhile. Only when every station is suitably equipped, and passengers have no excuse for not buying a ticket, can fare evasion be properly stamped on.

Currently, the likelihood of a ticket machine being out of order is great enough for the passenger to get the benefit of the doubt whether they deserve it or not.

 

[island]

Please keep up the good work. In my area gatelines (where installed) are rarely active and I'm dissatisfied at paying the full fare when so many don't.