PF Query

[redcar1868]

Hi all,

I recently went on a West Midlands train journey from a non staffed station. The ticket machine can be a bit temperamental and doesn’t always accept my card. The revenue protection officers came down and fined me even though I was going to buy one on the train as I always assumed that’s what you could do. However I spoke to two RPO’s one said you can only buy one on the train from non maned stations if you let the conductor know and the other said you can never buy one on the train and claimed that senior conductors have a general role and don’t actually sell tickets. I would also like to add that West Midlands train said to buy the ticket from the senior conductor as soon as you board the train and didn’t specify letting the conductor know, I would also like to add I had spoken to the social media team and they said this was based of an assumption. However this contracts the penalty fares notice poster that doesn’t specify what to do if you can’t buy a ticket and contradicts West Midlands trains policy. I normally buy on Trainline but that’s hit or miss for me at times

So my question is for everyone:

- how do you interpret the senior conductors role and do you think they should have more announcements about buying tickets and the role of a SC ?

- Do you think buying tickets on board is clear as RPO’s are appearing more and more trying to catch people out ?

- has anyone bought tickets off the train recently ?

 

[Bertie the bus]

Whether the ticket machine is temperamental or not is irrelevant. What is relevant is whether it was working on the day in question. Did you try to purchase a ticket before boarding?

As for the guard reading out his job description on the train - no, thanks. I'm quite happy for guards not to do that.

 

[Dr Hoo]

As a general comment; if you have a suitable device then take a photograph of the ticket machine showing ‘out of service’, ‘card declined’, ‘transaction failed’ or whatever.

 

[AlterEgo]

As a general comment; if you have a suitable device then take a photograph of the ticket machine showing ‘out of service’, ‘card declined’, ‘transaction failed’ or whatever.

“Card declined” isn’t sufficient evidence of a faulty machine. It means your card has declined, nothing else.

 

[Puffing Devil]

“Card declined” isn’t sufficient evidence of a faulty machine. It means your card has declined, nothing else.

Used to be a recurrent problem with Northern machines and Amex.

 

[Watershed]

If the ticket machine was not working when you travelled, then you were entitled to buy on board. There is no requirement to notify the conductor when you board; it is up to them to come through and check/sell tickets. If they don't come through then you should pay at your destination or any station where you change trains on your journey, assuming ticket buying facilities are available there.

If you didn't check whether the machine was working and it turned out to be working, then in principle RPIs were correct to issue you with a Penalty Fare. Unless a station/operator has a sign/policy saying you can buy onboard then you have to at least try to use the facilities to buy a ticket. WMT have a Penalty Fares scheme that applies across their entire network, and I'm not aware of any station-specific exceptions - other than for stations that don't have any ticket buying facilities at all (I'm presuming that wasn't the case for your journey).

 

[redcar1868]

Whether the ticket machine is temperamental or not is irrelevant. What is relevant is whether it was working on the day in question. Did you try to purchase a ticket before boarding?

As for the guard reading out his job description on the train - no, thanks. I'm quite happy for guards not to do that.

Yes I did try to buy and thought the option of buying on the train was an option and didn’t release it was only when the SC was opening the doors that you can buy one. My question was mainly based around is it common knowledge that they don’t sell tickets on the trains no more ? Apologies I am not a train buff so my lack of knowledge is showing !

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Aug 2025 ==

If the ticket machine was not working when you travelled, then you were entitled to buy on board. There is no requirement to notify the conductor when you board; it is up to them to come through and check/sell tickets. If they don't come through then you should pay at your destination or any station where you change trains on your journey, assuming ticket buying facilities are available there.

If you didn't check whether the machine was working and it turned out to be working, then in principle RPIs were correct to issue you with a Penalty Fare. Unless a station/operator has a sign/policy saying you can buy onboard then you have to at least try to use the facilities to buy a ticket. WMT have a Penalty Fares scheme that applies across their entire network, and I'm not aware of any station-specific exceptions - other than for stations that don't have any ticket buying facilities at all (I'm presuming that wasn't the case for your journey).

I did try to buy one but didn’t work and I was rushing so looking back I should have took a picture. I went looking at my local station and it says you can buy aboard the train but it’s in tiny print.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Aug 2025 ==

Used to be a recurrent problem with Northern machines and Amex.

“Card declined” isn’t sufficient evidence of a faulty machine. It means your card has declined, nothing else.

The ticket machine at my station has frequent issues reported with this sort of issue happening

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Aug 2025 ==

As a general comment; if you have a suitable device then take a photograph of the ticket machine showing ‘out of service’, ‘card declined’, ‘transaction failed’ or whatever.

Thank you, I wish I had done that

 

[Dr Hoo]

“Card declined” isn’t sufficient evidence of a faulty machine. It means your card has declined, nothing else.

I know that but at least it shows a pre-boarding attempt to pay. If the machine doesn’t accept cash and you produce cash on the train at an early opportunity (and show the inspector the pic) I’d be surprised if you would still get a Penalty Fare.

 

[redcar1868]

If the ticket machine was not working when you travelled, then you were entitled to buy on board. There is no requirement to notify the conductor when you board; it is up to them to come through and check/sell tickets. If they don't come through then you should pay at your destination or any station where you change trains on your journey, assuming ticket buying facilities are available there.

If you didn't check whether the machine was working and it turned out to be working, then in principle RPIs were correct to issue you with a Penalty Fare. Unless a station/operator has a sign/policy saying you can buy onboard then you have to at least try to use the facilities to buy a ticket. WMT have a Penalty Fares scheme that applies across their entire network, and I'm not aware of any station-specific exceptions - other than for stations that don't have any ticket buying facilities at all (I'm presuming that wasn't the case for your journey).

The RPO informed that you have to let them know if you need to buy a ticket and they also said you can no longer by at your destination so I am querying the grey area of the policy as that is my main concern especially for others who don’t know.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Aug 2025 ==

I know that but at least it shows a pre-boarding attempt to pay. If the machine doesn’t accept cash and you produce cash on the train at an early opportunity (and show the inspector the pic) I’d be surprised if you would still get a Penalty Fare.

The RO said they would still fine you if you are looking to pay with cash as if you didn’t tell the conductor so I am more interested in their policy around this

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Aug 2025 ==

If the ticket machine was not working when you travelled, then you were entitled to buy on board. There is no requirement to notify the conductor when you board; it is up to them to come through and check/sell tickets. If they don't come through then you should pay at your destination or any station where you change trains on your journey, assuming ticket buying facilities are available there.

If you didn't check whether the machine was working and it turned out to be working, then in principle RPIs were correct to issue you with a Penalty Fare. Unless a station/operator has a sign/policy saying you can buy onboard then you have to at least try to use the facilities to buy a ticket. WMT have a Penalty Fares scheme that applies across their entire network, and I'm not aware of any station-specific exceptions - other than for stations that don't have any ticket buying facilities at all (I'm presuming that wasn't the case for your journey).

Also wanted to add I asked a separate RPO if you can buy tickets on trains anymore and they said you could never do that, always before however WR said you can buy on trains so there is a lot of mixed messaging. So interested to here your thoughts

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Aug 2025 ==

I know that but at least it shows a pre-boarding attempt to pay. If the machine doesn’t accept cash and you produce cash on the train at an early opportunity (and show the inspector the pic) I’d be surprised if you would still get a Penalty Fare.

Also sorry just to add what is your interpretation of paying on trains, do you inform the SC or do you wait for them to come down ? Thanks so much for your help

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Aug 2025 ==

Whether the ticket machine is temperamental or not is irrelevant. What is relevant is whether it was working on the day in question. Did you try to purchase a ticket before boarding?

As for the guard reading out his job description on the train - no, thanks. I'm quite happy for guards not to do that.

Also can I ask on the off chance you are buying a ticket on the train would you inform the SC or would you wait for them to come down ?

 

[AlterEgo]

The ticket machine at my station has frequent issues reported with this sort of issue happening

It's of no relevance, a declined transaction is not evidence of a fault.

I know that but at least it shows a pre-boarding attempt to pay. If the machine doesn’t accept cash and you produce cash on the train at an early opportunity (and show the inspector the pic) I’d be surprised if you would still get a Penalty Fare.

Why would you need to produce cash? I think if I was adamant the machine was faulty, and it wasn't because I had no funds, I'd offer the same card again.

 

[redcar1868]

It's of no relevance, a declined transaction is not evidence of a fault.


Why would you need to produce cash? I think if I was adamant the machine was faulty, and it wasn't because I had no funds, I'd offer the same card again.

Alter ego, thanks for your reply. My question is if you had to buy a ticket from the SC would you inform them or would you wait for them to come down the train ? Because I have got mixed response from WMR staff so looking for others takes.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Aug 2025 ==

Alter ego, thanks for your reply. My question is if you had to buy a ticket from the SC would you inform them or would you wait for them to come down the train ? Because I have got mixed response from WMR staff so looking for others takes.

Because the signs about this and WMR CS team seem to contradict policies as they said it’s based off an assumption.

 

[Watershed]

Yes I did try to buy and thought the option of buying on the train was an option and didn’t release it was only when the SC was opening the doors that you can buy one.

If you are entitled to buy a ticket onboard (either because ticket facilities aren't available/working, or because there is a sign/policy saying you can do so) then you do not need to approach the conductor. You simply need to ask to buy one from them when/if they pass through the train.

It sounds like the RPI in this instance was, to put it nicely, very badly misinformed as to how the rules work.

My question was mainly based around is it common knowledge that they don’t sell tickets on the trains no more ?

Conductors on WMT services absolutely can and do sell tickets on the trains. That doesn't change the fact that in most circumstances - but not all - boarding without a ticket can result in a Penalty Fare or prosecution.

Basically, there are different ways the same situation (of boarding without a ticket) can be regularised. One option is for the conductor to sell you a ticket. Another is to be penalised by means of a PF or prosecution, if you had a chance to buy a ticket before boarding.

Apologies I am not a train buff so my lack of knowledge is showing !

Quite understandably, especially when there are staff, such as the RPI you encountered, who are giving you incorrect information!

I did try to buy one but didn’t work and I was rushing so looking back I should have took a picture.

If it wasn't working, despite you having a valid payment method (card or cash) then you were entitled to buy onboard on that basis alone. Having a picture is always useful, since operators' logs may not show the fault you have encountered, although there is no legal requirement to take a picture.

I went looking at my local station and it says you can buy aboard the train but it’s in tiny print.

It would be very useful if you could tell us which station it is, or provide us with a picture of what the sign says. It may well provide an additional defence/justification to buying onboard, on top of the broken ticket machine.

The ticket machine at my station has frequent issues reported with this sort of issue happening

Unfortunately this would not be a valid basis for buying onboard. You have to at least try to use the machine, unless the sign you mentioned says that you can always buy onboard.

and they also said you can no longer by at your destination

In physical terms it has always been possible buy at your destination - it's just that, like buying onboard, there can be penalties depending on what kind of member of staff you encounter (a member of ticket office/barrier staff vs an RPI, for example).

so I am querying the grey area of the policy as that is my main concern especially for others who don’t know.

There isn't really a grey area; it sounds like a mixture of the RPI not knowing the rules and an unusual situation at your particular local station.

The RO said they would still fine you if you are looking to pay with cash as if you didn’t tell the conductor so I am more interested in their policy around this

Also can I ask on the off chance you are buying a ticket on the train would you inform the SC or would you wait for them to come down ?

If you wanted to pay with cash, the machine doesn't accept cash, and there are no other facilities at the station (e.g. a Permit to Travel machine) then you are entitled to board the train and buy a ticket at the first available opportunity. As mentioned previously, there is no requirement to proactively find the conductor.

It is quite different if you had an opportunity to buy a ticket at the station. In that case, you would be committing an offence and would be liable to a Penalty Fare if you board the train without a ticket. You would therefore be best off proactively finding the conductor to buy a ticket as soon as possible.

Also wanted to add I asked a separate RPO if you can buy tickets on trains anymore and they said you could never do that, always before however WR said you can buy on trains so there is a lot of mixed messaging. So interested to here your thoughts

Hopefully my explanation above explains the situation a bit more clearly.

 

[soil]

Alter ego, thanks for your reply. My question is if you had to buy a ticket from the SC would you inform them or would you wait for them to come down the train ? Because I have got mixed response from WMR staff so looking for others takes.

You don't need to look for them, since if the ticket buying facilities are not working, this is a defence to not having a ticket, and that's the end of that, no need for further debate.

If the ticket buying facilities include card payment, which I believe all machines do, then that would qualify as "not working".

Obviously it's possible it's a problem with your card or bank, so worth keeping evidence that the machine is not working.

Doing this increases the risk of confrontation or issues, but legally you are in the right.

 

[AlterEgo]

Alter ego, thanks for your reply. My question is if you had to buy a ticket from the SC would you inform them or would you wait for them to come down the train ? Because I have got mixed response from WMR staff so looking for others takes.

You just wait for the guard to come, there is no need to seek them out.

You may buy on board if both of the following apply:

- there are no ticket machines, or the one/s that exist are not working to accept your chosen payment method, and
- there is no ticket office, or the one that exists is closed

OR

- you have a disability which makes purchasing a ticket using the facilities at the station inaccessible to you.

 

[redcar1868]

You just wait for the guard to come, there is no need to seek them out.

You may buy on board if both of the following apply:

- there are no ticket machines, or the one/s that exist are not working to accept your chosen payment method, and
- there is no ticket office, or the one that exists is closed

OR

- you have a disability which makes purchasing a ticket using the facilities at the station inaccessible to you.

Thank you ! The day in question I was travelling from Bilbrook where there is no ticket office and only one ticket machine. Just interesting that the RPO are telling people buying on trains isn’t an option as I know that would get a lot of people

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Aug 2025 ==

You don't need to look for them, since if the ticket buying facilities are not working, this is a defence to not having a ticket, and that's the end of that, no need for further debate.

If the ticket buying facilities include card payment, which I believe all machines do, then that would qualify as "not working".

Obviously it's possible it's a problem with your card or bank, so worth keeping evidence that the machine is not working.

Doing this increases the risk of confrontation or issues, but legally you are in the right.

Thank you ! They classed that as an opportunity to buy a ticket and I had tried all other options. The signage at Bilbrook isn’t clear for buying tickets on trains from SC

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Aug 2025 ==

If you are entitled to buy a ticket onboard (either because ticket facilities aren't available/working, or because there is a sign/policy saying you can do so) then you do not need to approach the conductor. You simply need to ask to buy one from them when/if they pass through the train.

It sounds like the RPI in this instance was, to put it nicely, very badly misinformed as to how the rules work.


Conductors on WMT services absolutely can and do sell tickets on the trains. That doesn't change the fact that in most circumstances - but not all - boarding without a ticket can result in a Penalty Fare or prosecution.

Basically, there are different ways the same situation (of boarding without a ticket) can be regularised. One option is for the conductor to sell you a ticket. Another is to be penalised by means of a PF or prosecution, if you had a chance to buy a ticket before boarding.


Quite understandably, especially when there are staff, such as the RPI you encountered, who are giving you incorrect information!


If it wasn't working, despite you having a valid payment method (card or cash) then you were entitled to buy onboard on that basis alone. Having a picture is always useful, since operators' logs may not show the fault you have encountered, although there is no legal requirement to take a picture.


It would be very useful if you could tell us which station it is, or provide us with a picture of what the sign says. It may well provide an additional defence/justification to buying onboard, on top of the broken ticket machine.


Unfortunately this would not be a valid basis for buying onboard. You have to at least try to use the machine, unless the sign you mentioned says that you can always buy onboard.


In physical terms it has always been possible buy at your destination - it's just that, like buying onboard, there can be penalties depending on what kind of member of staff you encounter (a member of ticket office/barrier staff vs an RPI, for example).


There isn't really a grey area; it sounds like a mixture of the RPI not knowing the rules and an unusual situation at your particular local station.



If you wanted to pay with cash, the machine doesn't accept cash, and there are no other facilities at the station (e.g. a Permit to Travel machine) then you are entitled to board the train and buy a ticket at the first available opportunity. As mentioned previously, there is no requirement to proactively find the conductor.

It is quite different if you had an opportunity to buy a ticket at the station. In that case, you would be committing an offence and would be liable to a Penalty Fare if you board the train without a ticket. You would therefore be best off proactively finding the conductor to buy a ticket as soon as possible.


Hopefully my explanation above explains the situation a bit more clearly.

It’s Bilbrook train station, there is a board behind a barrier on a walk way that says you can by from SC at your earliest point which I only found after I had emailed. I was having a bit of a bad morning so always assume they come down so never really thought to seek them out as they have never had an issue selling tickets. RP also said they only do that because they get commission so I have raised a complaint about that as I think he is spreading misinformation rather than helping preventing stopping Pf.

 

[mikeg]

Thank you ! The day in question I was travelling from Bilbrook where there is no ticket office and only one ticket machine. Just interesting that the RPO are telling people buying on trains isn’t an option as I know that would get a lot of people

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Aug 2025 ==


Thank you ! They classed that as an opportunity to buy a ticket and I had tried all other options. The signage at Bilbrook isn’t clear for buying tickets on trains from SC

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Aug 2025 ==


It’s Bilbrook train station, there is a board behind a barrier on a walk way that says you can by from SC at your earliest point which I only found after I had emailed. I was having a bit of a bad morning so always assume they come down so never really thought to seek them out as they have never had an issue selling tickets. RP also said they only do that because they get commission so I have raised a complaint about that as I think he is spreading misinformation rather than helping preventing stopping Pf.

If there is a sign saying that you can buy from the conductor, please take a photo of it as that's a valid grounds for appeal and also a defence to potential prosecution.

 

[6Gman]

You just wait for the guard to come, there is no need to seek them out.

You may buy on board if both of the following apply:

- there are no ticket machines, or the one/s that exist are not working to accept your chosen payment method, and
- there is no ticket office, or the one that exists is closed

OR

- you have a disability which makes purchasing a ticket using the facilities at the station inaccessible to you.

OR

you want to buy a ticket that the machine cannot issue - such as a Rover or Ranger ticket.

 

[AlterEgo]

OR

you want to buy a ticket that the machine cannot issue - such as a Rover or Ranger ticket.

Where in the Conditions or the Bylaws is that defence stated?

 

[redcar1868]

If there is a sign saying that you can buy from the conductor, please take a photo of it as that's a valid grounds for appeal and also a defence to potential prosecution.

Thank you ! I have added it to my appeal letter.

 

[Tetchytyke]

you want to buy a ticket that the machine cannot issue - such as a Rover or Ranger ticket.

You are supposed to buy a ticket from the machine and then exchange it at a ticket office for the ticket you actually want. This used to be in the conditions of travel but isn’t anymore.

Otherwise it depends on local practice. Northern will allow you to obtain a Promise to Pay if you can’t buy the ticket you want.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Aug 2025 ==

Speaking of the NRCoT, it specifically states that you can buy a ticket from the conductor on board if you can’t buy one at the origin.

 

[Sherby976]

So if there is 100 people on a train, a conductor is obligated to ignore the other 99 people, ignore opening and shutting doors etc to go searching for a person who has not been sold a ticket... I think people here do not understand what a conductors primary role is. It is not to act as a ticket salesperson I will tell you that much.

 

[Spaceship323]

OR

you want to buy a ticket that the machine cannot issue - such as a Rover or Ranger ticket.

No, you buy a ticket to your nearest ticket office and claim back the cost (Good luck with that - some will offset the cost against the rover, some won't...depends who is on at the time) Never board without a valid ticket

 

[gray1404]

Can you please provide details of the journey made and upload to copy of your penalty fare notice and we can see if we can help you.

 

[redcar1868]

So if there is 100 people on a train, a conductor is obligated to ignore the other 99 people, ignore opening and shutting doors etc to go searching for a person who has not been sold a ticket... I think people here do not understand what a conductors primary role is. It is not to act as a ticket salesperson I will tell you that much.

Sherby976, thank you for your reply. This actually supports my point there is a lack of knowledge around the conductors job on the train as I have received different responses from WMR Customer Service and the Revenue Protection Officers. WMR state you can buy a ticket from a conductor however according to the RO they mentioned that SC on WMR actually receive a proportion of sales sold on the train. I have received a mix of responses on this thread but I do understand what you mean that they don’t have to come down the train however if WMR advertise it as an option even though it isn’t one. I know you are thinking idiot train user on the internet but they are a lot of people who do the same and even WMR when I spoke to them acknowledged a gap.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Aug 2025 ==

So if there is 100 people on a train, a conductor is obligated to ignore the other 99 people, ignore opening and shutting doors etc to go searching for a person who has not been sold a ticket... I think people here do not understand what a conductors primary role is. It is not to act as a ticket salesperson I will tell you that much.

And also ironically this is what a revenue Protection officer told me to do that. I had always been under the impression they had to come down if they can.

 

[Watershed]

Sherby976, thank you for your reply. This actually supports my point there is a lack of knowledge around the conductors job on the train as I have received different responses from WMR Customer Service and the Revenue Protection Officers. WMR state you can buy a ticket from a conductor

They are correct that conductors are supposed to check tickets, and are also able to sell them. It is quite a significant part of their role, although TOCs usually their conductors to prioritise their operational duties.

The fact they are able to sell tickets doesn't mean it is always legal for people to board the train and buy onboard. In some cases it is legal - for example if the ticketing facilities aren't working or, as you have told us happens at Bilbrook, there is a sign saying you can buy onboard. But in the greater proportion of cases, people buying onboard have committed an offence under the Railway Byelaws by boarding without a ticket.

however according to the RO they mentioned that SC on WMR actually receive a proportion of sales sold on the train.

That's correct. It is a measure taken to encourage them to check tickets (and sell some in the process).

I have received a mix of responses on this thread but I do understand what you mean that they don’t have to come down the train however if WMR advertise it as an option even though it isn’t one.

It is physically possible to buy one from the guard. There is no obligation to proacitvely seek out the guard if you are entitled to buy onboard. It is up to the guard whether or not they go through the train. If you have legitimately boarded the train without a ticket, and they don't come through the train before your destination, you are entitled to then buy at your destination instead.

I know you are thinking idiot train user on the internet but they are a lot of people who do the same and even WMR when I spoke to them acknowledged a gap.

There are a lot of people who are all too happy to blame passengers for making understandable mistakes due to the confusing mess of ticketing rules and regulations.

 

[Sherby976]

I was not thinking your an idiot at all. Apologies if my message came across as such.

 

[redcar1868]

They are correct that conductors are supposed to check tickets, and are also able to sell them. It is quite a significant part of their role, although TOCs usually their conductors to prioritise their operational duties.

The fact they are able to sell tickets doesn't mean it is always legal for people to board the train and buy onboard. In some cases it is legal - for example if the ticketing facilities aren't working or, as you have told us happens at Bilbrook, there is a sign saying you can buy onboard. But in the greater proportion of cases, people buying onboard have committed an offence under the Railway Byelaws by boarding without a ticket.


That's correct. It is a measure taken to encourage them to check tickets (and sell some in the process).


It is physically possible to buy one from the guard. There is no obligation to proacitvely seek out the guard if you are entitled to buy onboard. It is up to the guard whether or not they go through the train. If you have legitimately boarded the train without a ticket, and they don't come through the train before your destination, you are entitled to then buy at your destination instead.


There are a lot of people who are all too happy to blame passengers for making understandable mistakes due to the confusing mess of ticketing rules and regulations.

Thanks for your reply, it’s been interesting when I have done some digging as I have been getting mixed responses and even the rail company contradicts itself. My main concern with all this if it starts catching out younger people or even the older generation who get on at rural stations. I have complained to WMR about this as a train companies system shouldn’t be to catch people out. If they put ticket machines on trains that would reduce the penalty fares notice drastically as everyone will have got given an opportunity to buy a ticket and it wouldn’t be up to SC to sell them.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Aug 2025 ==

I was not thinking you’re an idiot at all. Apologies if my message came across as such.

No worries at all ! Your take was really interesting as it actually shows that the enforcers don’t fully know WMR guidance.

 

[AlterEgo]

I have complained to WMR about this as a train companies system shouldn’t be to catch people out.

May as well pick up the wastepaper bin and shout into it. If you want to enact change here you need to engage at the political level. You’ll get 3-4 paragraphs by reply and nothing will change as a result, all the company will do is explain its own position.

If they put ticket machines on trains that would reduce the penalty fares notice drastically as everyone will have got given an opportunity to buy a ticket and it wouldn’t be up to SC to sell them.

Under the law, they wouldn’t. You’d need to change the law first, because the act of boarding the train without a valid ticket is a criminal offence.

 

[redcar1868]

May as well pick up the wastepaper bin and shout into it. If you want to enact change here you need to engage at the political level. You’ll get 3-4 paragraphs by reply and nothing will change as a result, all the company will do is explain its own position.


Under the law, they wouldn’t. You’d need to change the law first, because the act of boarding the train without a valid ticket is a criminal offence.

When I spoke to them on the phone they acknowledged that their policy is based of an assumption that everyone knows the role of buying tickets on trains which I myself didn’t know till yesterday. I put in the complaint regarding ticket purchasing at various stations.

Yes, it’s a shame though as this rule is clearly the more expensive option to enforce.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Aug 2025 ==

May as well pick up the wastepaper bin and shout into it. If you want to enact change here you need to engage at the political level. You’ll get 3-4 paragraphs by reply and nothing will change as a result, all the company will do is explain its own position.


Under the law, they wouldn’t. You’d need to change the law first, because the act of boarding the train without a valid ticket is a criminal offence.

Also depending on how they respond I will also be going to the Watch dog and my local MP as I don’t think the guidance at smaller stations is clear

 

[trainJam]

has anyone bought tickets off the train recently ?

Since the new trains on the Cross City line were introduced, I have had 3 occasions (where the TVMs were not taking cash, NRCOT 6.1.3.2).

Personally, I prefer to ask the conductor on the platform (although I know where they will be) as I would rather sort it sooner rather than later. Then, I'll take a seat in coach 4 and wait for them to come through.

1. Conductor just asks me to buy at Birmingham New Street. If I were to hit a revenue block, then I would just have to tell them that and hope they listen.
2. Conductor sells me a ticket after departure (then someone else sitting nearby decides to ask to buy one as well, I don't know their situation so won't comment).
3. Conductor sells me a ticket, the transaction takes about 5 stops due to the frequency of stations, but he does get it done eventually.

In terms of conductor inspections, rare but they do happen - I would say about 5 times since the Class 730 introduction. So yes, the WMT conductors can do tickets, but seldom.

Since the 730 introduction, WMT full revenue inspections frequency has increased noticeably. They sometimes do blocks at Birmingham New Street as well.