Petrol Prices

[mumrar]

A 2.0L Sport Diesel BMW M3 however manages far better MPG with quite a considerable bit more "boot"

What's one of them then? A BMW M3 is only available with a 4.0L V8 engine, the diesel's available as a saloon, coupe and estate.

 

[devon_metro]

What's one of them then? A BMW M3 is only available with a 4.0L V8 engine, the diesel's available as a saloon, coupe and estate.

I don't know exactly what it is, however i'm told it had a "sport pack"

And is a saloon M3 2.0L Diesel

 

[royaloak]

BMW never have, do not now, and probably never will make an M3 diesel, a lot of 335Ds get badged up as M series cars but the only M part is the badge, if you could link to something proving the M3D exists we will all bow to your superior knowledge!
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And is a saloon M3 2.0L Diesel

So its a 320D with a sport pack then!

 

[90019]

I don't know exactly what it is, however i'm told it had a "sport pack"

And is a saloon M3 2.0L Diesel

320D M Sport.

 

[Nick W]

Are you serious? I thought April fools day was next week...

Did you learn to drive in Hong Kong as that is how so many people drive over here?

Maintaining a steady speed will always be more fuel efficient that jumping up and down on the accelerator.

Indeed, and cheers for backing me up 90019.

Petrol engines always run stoichiometric (the correct amount of air and petrol mixture for complete combustion) unlike diesel engines which run lean (more air than necessary). I forget why this is , I think it's because otherwise the mixture wouldn't combust evenly. This means that on the air intake (suck) cycle, for anything but full throttle the air intake has to be restricted by a throttle, which is equivalent, as I said before, to inhaling with a hand over ones mouth. The extra effort requires slows down the engine, meaning that more fuel must be burnt.

If we wanted to design a fuel efficient car in would be one in which flooring the accelerator in 6th gear would lead to the car scarcely reaching 65 MPH on flat sections and slowing to about 50MPH on inclines. Who's gonna admit they'd drive a car like that and make use of the 6th gear?

 

[flymo]

if you're on a motorway, you'd think that having the cruise control on in your car (If it has it obviously) would be more efficient than doing it yourself because it keeps it at a steady speed, but it's been shown that it's actually the opposite, even though this seems illogical.

It is quite easy to drive at a steady speed using your foot to control the throttle, I've done it all my driving life, who needs cruise control?

Cruise control will constantly change the throttle position to maintain the desired speed meaning lots of little changes in acceleration and thus less fuel efficiency. In that respect I think we are in agreement, cruise control is less efficient than using your foot.

What I am laughing at is

Regarding saving fuel in petrol-engined cars, [...] you want to either be on full throttle or no throttle (engine effectively off)!

Whilst that may be the perfect solution in a test environment it is absolutely laughable to drive like that in reality.

Imagine trying to drive like that to maintain 70mph on a motorway.

Floor the throttle to get to 70mph, then throttle off - car quickly slows down to, say, 65mph.
Floor the throttle to get to 70mph, then throttle off - car quickly slows down to, say, 65mph.
Floor the throttle to - etc etc. Imagine doing all that for 200 miles?

Imagine try to drive like that in a 20mph zone!! Man I'm laughing just thinking about it.

Accelerate and brake smoothly, no need to jump up and down on the accelerator.

 

[red circle]

Indeed, and cheers for backing me up 90019.

Petrol engines always run stoichiometric (the correct amount of air and petrol mixture for complete combustion) unlike diesel engines which run lean (more air than necessary). I forget why this is , I think it's because otherwise the mixture wouldn't combust evenly. This means that on the air intake (suck) cycle, for anything but full throttle the air intake has to be restricted by a throttle, which is equivalent, as I said before, to inhaling with a hand over ones mouth. The extra effort requires slows down the engine, meaning that more fuel must be burnt.

If we wanted to design a fuel efficient car in would be one in which flooring the accelerator in 6th gear would lead to the car scarcely reaching 65 MPH on flat sections and slowing to about 50MPH on inclines. Who's gonna admit they'd drive a car like that and make use of the 6th gear?

There is no throttle on a diesel engine unless you count either the old vacuum governors or the landrover brake vacuum flap thing.
The reason for the excess of air is that within a small fraction of a second each miniscule droplet of fuel injected has to 'find'enough oxygen to burn completely during the power stroke.

 

[Geezertronic]

320D M Sport.

A generic picture of a BMW

But the fact is that the government would have made a bigger deal about more efficient methods of transport but for the money that fuel tax and VAT brings in

 

[90019]

A generic picture of a BMW

But a Generic one of a 320D M Sport
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Whilst that may be the perfect solution in a test environment it is absolutely laughable to drive like that in reality.

Accelerate and brake smoothly, no need to jump up and down on the accelerator.

Which is why you don't do it when driving at a constant speed, but when you're accelerating on decelerating, you want to be on full throttle or no throttle respectively.

My point about cruise control is that what seems logical may not be so. I don't have it either, and have never used it myself.

 

[devon_metro]

320D M Sport.

Maybe its that then

Only travel in it occasionally, so don't really know.

 

[90019]

Maybe its that then

Only travel in it occasionally, so don't really know.

If it's got things like an M badge somewhere on the steering wheel, and ones on the wheels (I think they still do that), then it probably will be.

 

[Geezertronic]

But a Generic one of a 320D M Sport

How can the average Joe tell that is a 320D M Sport from a side on view?

 

[mumrar]

How can the average Joe tell that is a 320D M Sport from a side on view?

That's a fair point, and it brings me on to another BMW specific thing involving 'M' badges. Your average Joe who sees a boggo 3 series with 'M' badges on doesn't really know, or care what an M3 is. The only people who take notice are those that do know, and will take far more fooling than an 'M' badge to throw them off. So it begs the question, why do 318i owners put big alloys and 'M' badges on them? The only people who notice it, do so because they're laughing at a non M3!

There's nothing wrong with wanting an M3, it's a damn fine car, and I'd like one too. But I wouldn't mind a piece of Scarlett Johannson either, but I don't make the missus walk around with a face mask of her stuck on do I?

 

[Geezertronic]

Actually the way you can usually tell is by what alloys the car is wearing, well that is usually the way you can tell with Volkswagen's

 

[devon_metro]

If it's got things like an M badge somewhere on the steering wheel, and ones on the wheels (I think they still do that), then it probably will be.

Indeed, it is the estate version of that image. Has M badges varies places, hence I assumed it was an M3! How wrong I was...

 

[90019]

That's a fair point, and it brings me on to another BMW specific thing involving 'M' badges. Your average Joe who sees a boggo 3 series with 'M' badges on doesn't really know, or care what an M3 is. The only people who take notice are those that do know, and will take far more fooling than an 'M' badge to throw them off. So it begs the question, why do 318i owners put big alloys and 'M' badges on them? The only people who notice it, do so because they're laughing at a non M3!

There's a classic one round the corner from me. The guy obviously has a thing about red. The car's red, the interior's red, the blue on the logo on the wheels is red, and the BMW badges have been replaced with really tacky M ones.

There are some quite nice fakes around though, there's a fake M5 which I see sometimes, it's an E39 540i with a Quad exhaust and M5 alloys on it and only the BMW badges, it's a really nice car.

 

[Daimler]

That's a fair point, and it brings me on to another BMW specific thing involving 'M' badges. Your average Joe who sees a boggo 3 series with 'M' badges on doesn't really know, or care what an M3 is. The only people who take notice are those that do know, and will take far more fooling than an 'M' badge to throw them off. So it begs the question, why do 318i owners put big alloys and 'M' badges on them? The only people who notice it, do so because they're laughing at a non M3!

There's nothing wrong with wanting an M3, it's a damn fine car, and I'd like one too. But I wouldn't mind a piece of Scarlett Johannson either, but I don't make the missus walk around with a face mask of her stuck on do I?

I've been wondering about this for years....

The best I've seen was a CLK240 AMG...:roll:

 

[Nick W]

There is no throttle on a diesel engine unless you count either the old vacuum governors or the landrover brake vacuum flap thing.
The reason for the excess of air is that within a small fraction of a second each miniscule droplet of fuel injected has to 'find'enough oxygen to burn completely during the power stroke.

You're quite right about the diesels, the same amount of air is always taken in, even if on low "throttle" less fuel is injected in.

Maybe I was wrong about the the petrol engines running stoichiometric, but if they do run lean, it's always lean by the same amount, unlike diesel engines which will run leaner for lower throttles. I can't remember why this is - is it to do with avoiding the production of oxides of nitrogen, nor why it isn't a problem for diesels?

Edit: it appears this is the case - in the diesel engine the fuel is injected after the air is compressed, and this can be delayed when the throttle is "lower" to avoid the combustion chamber reaching high enough temperatures for nitrogen oxides production. Now why do people still prefer inferior petrol engines?

Accelerate and brake smoothly, no need to jump up and down on the accelerator.

As I've just pointed out, you want to be full on the throttle when accelerating. If you change gear early (at about 2000 rpm), you won't get a jerk from flooring the accelerator anyway. Obviously do your best to try and avoid braking all together though in practice this isn't easy.

 

[90019]

The best I've seen was a CLK240 AMG...:roll:

At the breaker's today, there was a 206 Motorsport Fulltime 4WD
The interior and the vents on the bonnet had been nicely painted with hammerite as well

 

[Broken Viking]

...and if we are really stuck just ask the MPs to put the deficit on expenses

RoyalOak mate...That truly had me in stitches!

Personally though, my solution to the country deficit would be to deal with the people who caused it in the first place...As a result, my approach would involve:

• The entire complement of the houses of Parlament and Lords,
• All executives involved in the banking system at any significant level,
• Four Canadian strength, high-speed wood chippers!

...Although if we're still in a financially tight spot, I don't mind sticking with only one chipper. It'd be most refreshing to hear the anguished screams of those subjected to slower process anyway!

 

[jrhilton]

It is quite easy to drive at a steady speed using your foot to control the throttle, I've done it all my driving life, who needs cruise control?

Cruise control will constantly change the throttle position to maintain the desired speed meaning lots of little changes in acceleration and thus less fuel efficiency. In that respect I think we are in agreement, cruise control is less efficient than using your foot.

That is true, I find cruse control can use a lot of fuel if you are going up and down very hilly roads as it just changes the throttle to ensure you have a steady speed.

Having said that, I would never buy a car without it these days, I prefer it when driving on a motorway, but I am a lazy "automatic gearbox all the way" sort of driver. Also I wouldn't buy cruse control unless it had radar, it makes it much safer that way.

Speed limiters and cruise control are great when you are going through 50MPH average check areas on motorways, but you don't need them of course.

As for the talk about a 3 series BMW, and a guy putting an M badge on it, it reminds me of the sort of amusing sayings that used to get bounded around the car scene, about old people who arn't sporty drivers etc who choose to drive BMWs....

Why did they buy a 1 series - because they can't afford a 3 series,

Why did they buy a 3 series, because they can't afford a 5 series.

Why did they buy a 5 series, because they didn't want a 7 series.

Why didn't they want a 7 series - because they would rather an S Class, but have heard how bad Mercedes dealers still are these days, so are sticking with the next best thing.

Not sure about the end but but the start is probably true, as for putting an M badge on it, do that many people really care, and anyone who does will guess very quickly when they hear the engine etc....how amusing.