Petition on photography at stations

[nedchester]

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/railenthusiasts/

 

[Snapper]

Before people decide to sign this, they really need some background information.

Tony Miles (one of the people who helped draw up the guidelines) has this to say:

I'll dive in here and confess to being one of the three journos who
worked on getting the guidelines agreed.
"ill thought out" is a gross insult to the work that was required to
get over 25 organisations to agree to a common set of guidelines when
some wanted nothing, some were completely welcoming, some wanted
permission to be granted in advance and some wanted the signing in to
be mandatory. It took a huge effort and some hefty pressure on MDs to
get their "jobsworth" teams lower down to agree to the wording that
was finally agreed. You should be grateful that most MDs were far more
enthusiast friendly than the people we originally dealt with who in
some cases had to be "told" to agree to the guidelines.

Thanks also to ATOC who similarly had to put pressure on some TOCs to
fall in line with the rest.

There were some big compromises - but the alternative was different
rules at every TOC and some may have gone for the outright ban. We
were so relieved when we finally got agreement.

Quote:
> The idea of asking rail enthusiasts to report in would be unworkable if
> it was taken seriously. As it's not taken seriously by anyone, the
> whole idea should be scrapped and removed from the guidelines.

And you'd instantly get at least three TOCs banning photography on
stations - just leave it be, offer to sign in if you get the chance
and STOP rocking a very rocky boat....

As another poster has pointed out - there is no right of access to
stations for purposes other than to catch trains - generally there is
support for enthusiasts and even BTP accept their value - and are
annoyed that the Government has ordered them to "stop & search"
obviously innocent enthusiasts. So, we have a set of guidelines that
were the best we could get - and if you knew how much effort it took
to get them agreed......

If anyone fancies writing a different set and getting every TOC, ATOC,
BTP etc. to agree to them then be our guest. Meanwhile just remember -
in Australia you need a permit that has a finite time limit and has to
be purchased. Even then it has far more rules and restrictions than we
have in the UK. Push the TOCs hard enough and someone will find that
out and they'll all decide to accept that idea.

====

Finally - plenty of posters here have gone down the "it's all just
crazy" line. To a great extent I agree - but the railways aren't run
by former enthusiasts in the way they were many years ago and a lot of
the "business people" now near the top (MDs usually excepted) don't
understand the "hobby" and so take a different line. (Our business is
carrying passengers, not providing material for a hobby etc. etc.) So
we have to work round this and make sure we are still welcomed. As I
said before the original discussions threw up people who wanted total
bans, a hostile approach and plenty of confrontation. Let's just be
sure that we don't give them cause to break away and declare their own
rules on their part of the network. With a paranoid government in
power any TOC saying "we're doing this for security reasons" will
probably get DfT support. How about making sure that this never
happens?

 

[nedchester]

Well over 400 have signed so far........

 

[FusionRail]

As you say snapper - It is just crazy.

There is no need for all this silly trouble - if things in the actual railway industry wern't so out of hand and everything was done how a railway should be run, we wouldn't have any problems.

I mean, back in the old days, your dad/grandad would have been out as kids sitting (in come cases basically on the tracks) getting numbers and watching the trains, going into depots and things like that. Its just todays terrible society thats the problem.

 

[Snapper]

Well over 400 have signed so far........

That's their choice. It doesn't mean that it's the right course of action.

 

[xc170]

Could someone explain what the petition is as i am slightly confused

 

[bluenoxid]

I'm hoping that you understand what a petition is. If not wiki it.

The “Guidelines for Rail Enthusiasts” promoted by the Association of Train Operating Companies, Network Rail and the British Transport Police require enthusiasts to “sign in” before spending leisure time at railway stations.

This is a statement of what currently happens. As someone who sits on a union council at a university, I think of it as "council notes". Which is like the facts that currently occur

These guidelines, which place the onus on the individual to prove that he or she is not a threat rather than on railway professionals to prove he or she is,

This states that the current guidelines make a rail enthusiast prove that they are not a threat or problem rather than having the staff make an "educated" guess

have led to considerable conflict between railway enthusiasts and often poorly trained staff, take little account of the behaviour of enthusiasts, are highly unlikely to offer any real protection against terrorism and only serve to alienate the industry’s natural allies.

This states that the results have been conflicts between staff and enthusiasts, have not taken into account the shy behaviour of rail enthusiasts, don't offer that much protection against terror and alienate people who are supportive of the rail industry

Of course, it seems reasonable but is not offering any alternative. Snapper has written some good stuff on a rival forum but the crux of it has been this

A railway station is private land and the TOC can prevent rail enthusiasts from entering its stations. It doesn't need a reason. There is nothing you can do about it.