Person hit by Eurostar

[Spaceflower]

Look your comparing two entirely different modes of transport here.

Roads have speed limits for the safety of other users and pedestrians as there is more risk involved, not least the fact that practically any and every Tom, Dick and Harry can drive a car and do. Cars can react much quicker than trains, which due to the momentum and lack of steering take an awfully long time to stop. That is why railway lines are Dangerous and restricted areas to the public. Motorways are similar to railways, the only reason they have lower speed limits is the danger posed by the sheer number of other vehicles increasing the risk of something going wrong vastly.

 

[VTDan]

To back that up what 'mojo' said. You are not incharge of 100 lives or so when driving a car. If I saw anyone on the line i'd rather kill them than injure/harm passengers onboard.
Mr B J mann i really can't see where you're coming from, and you need to seriously think about what you're coming out with! In a way, it's unbelievable....

 

[Spaceflower]

VT Dan you are stupid, sorry mate but you take the legal/financial rap if you hit a pedestrian, as harsh as it may be. Idiots will know you will slow but let them take the risk with their own life for nothing more than feeling macho

 

[Mojo]

In this discussion there is healthy debate, please don't lower the tone by insulting other members and calling them stupid.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
In addition, there might be a number of reasons for someone to be on a road, as [Motorways and certain other roads excepted], they are generally not fenced and encourage people to walk alongside them and cross them, whereas you can't cross the track without training except at designated crossing points, bridges or subways, which are generally designed with safety in mind.

 

[VTDan]

William our opinions and actions we take clearly differ, somewhat offensive language is not needed as we're merely having a discussion.

I'm well aware of what 'rap' I take thanks. What they do is threatening to some drivers, them realising drivers won't stop for them and not showing any weakness to them, may, teach them a lesson. Hopefully without them getting injured or hurt in any way.

So what you think of me, keep it to yourself. We can all insult, so grow up.

 

[Mr B J mann]

Are you totally ignorant?

Well, I'm trying to learn.

But I'm having difficulty finding a decent teacher at the moment.

They should NOT BE THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

You mean like people messing about on road crossings?

You MUST NOT loiter on zebra, pelican or puffin crossings.
Laws ZPPPCRGD reg 19 & RTRA sect 25(5)

Or Obstruct the Highway, or even just threaten to inconvenience road traffic?

Highways Act 1980

Section 161 - Penalties for causing certain kinds of danger or annoyance

3 If a person plays at football or any other game on a highway to the annoyance of a user of the highway he is guilty of an offence and liable to a fine not exceeding level 1 on the standard scale.

13 No person shall on any land adjoining a street play any game in a manner likely to cause obstruction to any traffic or to cause danger to any person in such a street

So all those ordinary road pesky pedestrians:

should NOT BE THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Either.

So I'm STILL "ignorant"!

The railway is NOT PUBLIC PROPERTY.

No?

Do you mean it's not Nationalised?

Semi-Nationalised?

Owned by public bodies?

Private ones?


And your point is?


That I can dig a bear pit inside my front door because my home:

is NOT PUBLIC PROPERTY.

And how was I suppose to know a burglar was going to break in through my front door.

You might as well argue:

No-one knows where there is going to be someone.

Surely that is a reason for slowing down EVERYWHERE?

Not going as fast as you like ANYWHERE!

So I'm STILL "ignorant".

I've witnessed THREE successful suicide attempts, all three at different locations and all of them were 'firsts', and all of them were at line speed, 100mph. All three were at stations and only at the last minute did they jump down onto the track. Are you honestly saying that drivers should SLOW down just because "omg omg omg peoplez on platform omg best slow down!"?

Errrrmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

No.


I'm saying that other forms of transport are expected to.

So, what, exactly, is rail's excuse for not slowing down?

After all, "Twenty's Plenty" on the roads wherever there is a danger of a pedestrian getting in the way.

So, as trains can't steer round hazards.

And take miles to stop from high speeds.

Surely "Ten's Too Fast, Five's Fine!"


Or am I STILL missing something?

:roll:

 

[Spaceflower]

Well if I see kids or anyone messing around on the road, if anything I speed up.

Sorry Mojo but it had to be said and he is meant to be a train driver. He should be setting a good example

VT Dan I was not insulting you or using bad language. I was giving you my honest opinion of what I think of that course of action. If you dont like it, tough.

I have had a number of driving jobs and this kind of thing happened to me alot. Why should you risk facing the consequences of hitting someone? Stop....tell them to shift.

 

[VTDan]

My job has nothing todo with what I do outside of it!

I dont set any example mate! I am who I am, I didnt ask you to like it.
Dont insult me again. Really, grow up.

 

[matt]

Keep it calm folks please. Ta

 

[Mojo]

Because there is no danger of a pedestrian getting in the way on a railway line, as they are fenced and being on a railway line where you are in danger of being hit by a train is forbidden, except at designated crossings, and at these there is a duty for the person to observe the line is clear.

 

[Mr B J mann]

Roads are more dangerous than railways, just look at the statistics on numbers of deaths per year and I think you'll find I'm right. Therefore, it makes sense to go slower on roads through villages.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Well, looking at some statistics a railway enthusiast threw at me recently without thinking his argument through:

Some stats on road and rail deaths: 2006:

Pedestrian deaths on roads: 675
Pedestrian deaths on rail: 300

Pedestrian deaths per passenger Km 2006

Road 0.9 per billion passenger km
Rail 5.7 per billion passenger km

Oops.

Surely they show that rail kills SIX times more pedestrians than road per passenger mile!

(Would someone like to work out what the ratios are per vehicle mile?)

So, surely:

RAIL roads are more dangerous than roads, just look at the statistics on numbers of deaths per year and I think you'll find I'm right. Therefore, it makes sense to go slower on RAIL roads through.

Stations, level crossings and anywhere else where pedestrians might get onto the line!

By YOUR argument!

 

[Mojo]

But how many of those deaths on rail were caused by people who were where they shouldn't have been, or by those failing to use common sense at crossings?

 

[Mr B J mann]

If they're on the line, in my opinion: serves em right if they die. Yes, the poor driver but the person who was on the line will never do it again and nor will their friends/mates or whoever watched.

What is so hard to understand DO NOT TRESPASS ON THE RAILWAY. It's English, bold text....not difficult atall for anyone to understand. So 'MR B J mann' what goes on inside your head!

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Interesting to see what goes on inside YOUR head!


So you're saying of jaywalkers, crossing misusers, Highway obstructors, chicken players, etc:

If they're on the ROAD, in my opinion: serves em right if they die. Yes, the poor driver but the person who was on the ROAD will never do it again and nor will their friends/mates or whoever watched.

What is so hard to understand DO NOT jaywalk ON THE road. It's English, bold text....not difficult at all for anyone to understand. So 'MR VTDan' what goes on inside YOUR head!

 

[Spaceflower]

Mr B you do have a point, but its all about risk assessment in my opinion. The figures speak for themselves, more people are killed on the roads and when the perception of risk is increased then action is taken to reduce it, i.e. speed restrictions.

 

[Mr B J mann]

As a driver on one of the worst bits of line with 'suicides' and havin many 'nr misses' i think you are talking total bollocks!!!!!!!!

You might think so.

But I'm STILL waiting for an argument to show you're anywhere near right.

Mr Mann, you'll be saying we hav steering wheels next and can steer round them!!!!!!!

No, I'm saying that as trains CAN'T steer round hazards and take miles to stop from their usual speeds.

And if "Twenty's Plenty" on the roads.

"Ten's Too Fast, Five's Fine" on the rail roads.


Or did I forget to mention that?


Do you actually have a reasoned, logical counter argument to that?

 

[Mojo]

Yes! This is getting repetitive now. People don't cross tracks in the same way they cross roads.

 

[Spaceflower]

Its about acceptable risk Mr Mann.

Fenced off railways and carefully controlled traffic flows plus other safety measures on the railways reduces the risk to an acceptable level as to allow 100mph plus speeds.

Roads are a different mode of transport which require different measures to reduce similar risks, such as seatbelts, airbags, stricter speed limits, etc

This brings the 'benefits' into the equation I suppose, whereby the appropriate safety measures will be chosen to optimise the benefits of each mode of transport.

And then theres cost. Cost of implementation.

 

[Donny Dave]

Mr mann. I think your only on here to cause trouble....

Those stats you trotted out to which you said roads are far safer makes you look a pillock slightly. The way I read them is that the railways are 6 times safer....

 

[kestrel]

Best just ignore him, rather than havin a constructive discussion, he seems intent on just winding an peeing people off!!

 

[Daniel]

I will post a final comment in this thread, unless I see anything worth replying too.

Pedestrians shouldn't be on the track. If they should be on the track, it's at a foot crossing or level crossing where precautions are in place to prevent accidents. Anywhere else - oh well. Their fault.

 

[Donny Dave]

Time to lock this thread. It's going no where fast ....