Permitted Route Question - Lincoln to Leicester

[atominside]

I have consulted the routeing guide and think I have understood things correctly, but wanted a routeing expert, or two, from the forum to confirm so that I don't get any surprises on my journey.

Ticket is an Off Peak Day Return at £18.

Both Lincoln and Leicester are routeing points or members of a routeing group.

From the Yellow Pages I can see there is only one mapped journey - EM.

Looking at the routeing map, my understanding is that the following route, although not by any means the shortest or most direct, would be permissible:

Outward - Lincoln, Nottingham, Derby, Loughborough, Leicester.
Return - Leicester, Kettering, Oakham, Melton Mowbray, Loughborough, Nottingham, Lincoln.

As the ticket allows for Break of Journey, I think this is not bad value for a day out.

Am I barking up the right tree?

Thanks in advance for comments and advice.

 

[mangyiscute]

From what I can tell, that route would not be valid since going to Kettering and then heading north again is sort of double backing on this route (you don't explicitly double back but you head further south and then back north) so it doesn't seem like it should be valid
Plus, there are pretty much no trains from Melton Mowbray to Loughborough that avoid Leicester, so then you would be properly double backing which clearly wouldn't be allowed, and also since a Lincoln to Kettering return is more expensive I think that means the route would fail the fares check of there not being any more expensive tickets on the route
For this journey, you'd have to get a Lincoln to Kettering return (which is sadly way more expensive)

 

[JB_B]

Which train will you take for the Melton Mowbray-Loughborough leg? ( without going back to Leicester.)

 

[atominside]

From what I can tell, that route would not be valid since going to Kettering and then heading north again is sort of double backing on this route (you don't explicitly double back but you head further south and then back north) so it doesn't seem like it should be valid
Plus, there are pretty much no trains from Melton Mowbray to Loughborough that avoid Leicester, so then you would be properly double backing which clearly wouldn't be allowed, and also since a Lincoln to Kettering return is more expensive I think that means the route would fail the fares check of there not being any more expensive tickets on the route
For this journey, you'd have to get a Lincoln to Kettering return (which is sadly way more expensive)

Thanks for your response.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Nov 2022 ==

Which train will you take for the Melton Mowbray-Loughborough leg? ( without going back to Leicester.)

I hadn't yet considered this, wanted to get a yay or nay on the route before planning the journey.

Looking at the EMR route map, pdf from their website, I see that there are "Limited EMR Regional Services" between Melton Mowbray and Sileby - perhaps that what is you are hinting at?

 

[JB_B]

From what I can tell, that route would not be valid since going to Kettering and then heading north again is sort of double backing on this route (you don't explicitly double back but you head further south and then back north) so it doesn't seem like it should be valid
Plus, there are pretty much no trains from Melton Mowbray to Loughborough that avoid Leicester, so then you would be properly double backing which clearly wouldn't be allowed, and also since a Lincoln to Kettering return is more expensive I think that means the route would fail the fares check of there not being any more expensive tickets on the route
For this journey, you'd have to get a Lincoln to Kettering return (which is sadly way more expensive)

The fare check is irrelevant (since both the origin and destination are routeing points.)

OP would be passing through Spondon and Long Eaton twice but that's not a problem as they're covered by the group stations rule (both are Derby Group members.) Otherwise, I can't see any double-backs that aren't allowed nor any relevant (negative) easements. I think it's a valid route - but using it is stymied ( as you've noted ) by the lack of trains on the Melton-Loughborough (avoiding Leicester) leg.

 

[atominside]

Thank you both for your comments, very informative.

As a variation would this be permissible?

Outward - Lincoln, Nottingham, Derby, Loughborough, Leicester.
Return - Leicester, Loughborough, Nottingham, Lincoln.

I suspect "yes".

 

[JB_B]

Thank you both for your comments, very informative.

As a variation would this be permissible?

Outward - Lincoln, Nottingham, Derby, Loughborough, Leicester.
Return - Leicester, Loughborough, Nottingham, Lincoln.

I suspect "yes".

Yes, it would. If in doubt you can use a retail booking site to double-check ( and potentially avoid hassle if you buy a ticket with the itinerary you want.)

 

[atominside]

Yes, it would. If in doubt you can use a retail booking site to double-check ( and potentially avoid hassle if you buy a ticket with the itinerary you want.)

Great stuff, thanks for your response. Not quite the desired route but nice to get a bit more value out of the ticket than the same route there and back.

 

[Haywain]

Thanks for your response.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Nov 2022 ==


I hadn't yet considered this, wanted to get a yay or nay on the route before planning the journey.

Looking at the EMR route map, pdf from their website, I see that there are "Limited EMR Regional Services" between Melton Mowbray and Sileby - perhaps that what is you are hinting at?

There isn’t a generous provision of services from Corby to Oakham either.

 

[atominside]

Thank you - had seen the "Limited EMR Intercity services" notation on the pdf map, but have not looked at any journey planner.

 

[Watershed]

You would, in theory, be fine doing it in the opposite direction - the first two Nottingham to Norwich services run via Oakham (avoiding Leicester). Unfortunately there's no exact corresponding return working in the evening - there's a Peterborough to Nottingham service which also runs via Oakham, but unfortunately for you it reverses at Leicester.

Plus you wouldn't be able to take either of the first two Nottingham to Norwich services an Off-Peak Day Return (except on a Saturday), or even make them on the first train of the day from Lincoln.

Bear in mind that there are currently no train services between Leicester and Peterborough (just replacement buses), due to the recent serious bridge strike.

 

[atominside]

You would, in theory, be fine doing it in the opposite direction - the first two Nottingham to Norwich services run via Oakham (avoiding Leicester). Unfortunately there's no exact corresponding return working in the evening - there's a Peterborough to Nottingham service which also runs via Oakham, but unfortunately for you it reverses at Leicester.

Bear in mind that there are currently no train services between Leicester and Peterborough (just replacement buses), due to the recent serious bridge strike.

Thank you. Was just on Fast JP and found nothing in the Melton to Loughborough direction. Then looked in the other direction and found the early service, but of course no way to get from Lincoln for that time!

 

[Hadders]

From what I can tell, that route would not be valid since going to Kettering and then heading north again is sort of double backing on this route (you don't explicitly double back but you head further south and then back north) so it doesn't seem like it should be valid

Doubling back means passing through the same station twice. Travelling from Leicester to Melton Mowbray via Kettering and Corby does not involve a double back.