Permitted Route break of journey

[mercator]

Is it permitted to break a journey on a journey that has only one Permitted Route to take advantage of another Permitted Route from that intermediate station to the destination?

I hold an Any Permitted Super Off Peak Return (SSR) between Aylesbury and Swansea where the only Permitted Route is 'London'. On my return can I change at Didcot and travel to Aylesbury via Banbury, a Permitted Route on map RB?

 

[bb21]

You can use different permitted routes on the outward and the return portions.

However on either, if you break your journey on one permitted route, you must continue using that route.

So what you proposed is fine, but you cannot, for example, break your journey in London, make your own way to Banbury, and continue from there on the same ticket coupon (outward or return).

 

[Haywain]

I think the suggestion is that via Banbury is a permitted route for Didcot to Aylesbury, but not for Swansea to Aylesbury. If that is the case, then the journey may be broken, but can only be continued using the permitted route for the whole journey - via London.

 

[mercator]

Thanks Haywain for the clarification; and yes, that is what I was suggesting.

 

[bb21]

I see. Apologies for the misunderstanding.

Yes, you will need to use a permitted route for the whole journey and not one for an intermediate station as the Routeing Guide is not recursive.

 

[maniacmartin]

The permitted routes are the ones between the stations named on the ticket and you must pick one permitted route and stick to it whilst using that ticket (although OUT and RTN parts can be on different permitted routes). This is regardless of any breaks of journey.

 

[greatkingrat]

In this particular case, Aylesbury - Swansea via King's Sutton is the shortest route, and as Kings Sutton and Banbury form a routeing group, you can go via Banbury as well.

 

[maniacmartin]

Hang on. I thought the rule about being able to go anywhere within a routeing group only applied to mapped routes, not the shortest route.

 

[John @ home]

I thought the rule about being able to go anywhere within a routeing group only applied to mapped routes, not the shortest route.

Page 1 of the National Routeing Guide Instructions gives the OP the right to travel Aylesbury - Kings Sutton - Didcot - Swansea with an Aylesbury - Swansea route ✠ANY PERMITTED ticket because this is the shortest route by rail between Aylesbury and Swansea - see http://www.bukitlawang.com/routes/routes.aspx.

The list of Group Stations tells us that Banbury and Kings Sutton form Banbury Group for routeing purposes.

Pages 5 and 6 of the Instructions give an additional right to travel via any station in an intermediate station group where at least one station in that group is on a Permitted Route:

Some stations are grouped together to improve interchange between trains by offering customers access to a wider choice of train services and station facilities. A customer may travel via any station in such a group, including doubling back, provided that the group is on one of the permitted routes between their origin and destination stations. This extended availability is for interchange purposes only and does not apply where the origin or destination stations are part of a group.

I can see nothing in the Rules to suggest that this does not apply where a route is a Permitted Route because it's the shortest route.

 

[bb21]

I assume in that case the route would be subject to any applicable negative easements, due to the use of the Routeing Guide?

If the Group Stations Rule is not required, negative easements would not be applicable, as there is no requirement to consult the Routeing Guide.

 

[John @ home]

I assume in that case the route would be subject to any applicable negative easements, due to the use of the Routeing Guide?

Is this a theoretical question?

Are we aware of any journeys where:

• origin and destination do not have a routeing point in common, and
• a route is permitted because it's the shortest route, and
• that route is not a mapped route, and
• an intermediate station on the shortest route is a member of a Station Group, and
• there is at least one other station, X, within that Station Group, where travel via X would extend the length of the journey by more than 3 miles, and
• there is a negative easement prohibiting travel via X for this journey?

 

[bb21]

Yes, it is a theoretical question. I don't have an example in mind, but I might try and see if I can find one.