People who prefer the restricted things

[MikeWM]

Our Director in work is convinced we will become a society where we will wear masks if we get ill, e.g. like Japan.

I've made the following point a few times now and haven't yet had anything approximating to a good response, presumably because there isn't one...

If you *are* ill, surely 'catch it, bin it, kill it' is infinitely preferable *and* more hygenic - both for you and everyone around - than 'catch it, and strap it tightly to your face for hours'?

If you're ill, stay home until you're better. If you can't, for whatever reason, wash your hands regularly and use a good supply of tissues. Don't attach a load of germs to your face.

 

[kristiang85]

I've made the following point a few times now and haven't yet had anything approximating to a good response, presumably because there isn't one...

If you *are* ill, surely 'catch it, bin it, kill it' is infinitely preferable *and* more hygenic - both for you and everyone around - than 'catch it, and strap it tightly to your face for hours'?

If you're ill, stay home until you're better. If you can't, for whatever reason, wash your hands regularly and use a good supply of tissues. Don't attach a load of germs to your face.

It is bizarre isn't it. Hankerchiefs died out because people thought that a snotty rag in your pocket wasn't hygenic, yet masks apparently are better?

 

[Cdd89]

I think it'll be like Japan pre-Covid. In that there will be about 5% wearing them, rising to 10-15% in crowded situations like public transport. (Contrary to what is sometimes implied, the majority of people were not wearing masks at any one time in SE Asian countries).

 

[OldNick]

It is bizarre isn't it. Hankerchiefs died out because people thought that a snotty rag in your pocket wasn't hygenic, yet masks apparently are better?

Most people also wipe their rear ends with tissue and call that clean, and many still don't wash their hands after going to the loo in public places, so the general population isn't entirely trustworthy on what is hygenic or not, regardless of whether handkerchiefs are in vogue or not.

 

[Failed Unit]

I hope that the law is dropped ASAP about wearing the masks. I am skeptical they are a benefit overall. You see people take them off on trains put them on the table, next passenger is a child and hands all over the table in the mouth etc. But if people chose to wear them that is their choice - as long as they don't expect everyone to wear them. I do have an exemption so I stand out by not having one on (although most people seem to be happy with the visor which to me is a good compromise)

Being the parent of secondary school children, that age group was really happy on Monday knowing they didn't need to wear them in the class room again. So I suspect the majority will stop wearing them in an instant and only wear them where the law dictates.

There are some things I like in the new normal, such as ordering drinks in a pub at the table. Click and collect on cafes. However I do worry about society here. You meet many interesting people talking to people in queues, losing that may not be a good thing overall. It is nice to order a coffee and collect it from the counter, but sometime the person serving me is the only non-family member I have spoken to all week.

 

[bramling]

I've made the following point a few times now and haven't yet had anything approximating to a good response, presumably because there isn't one...

If you *are* ill, surely 'catch it, bin it, kill it' is infinitely preferable *and* more hygenic - both for you and everyone around - than 'catch it, and strap it tightly to your face for hours'?

If you're ill, stay home until you're better. If you can't, for whatever reason, wash your hands regularly and use a good supply of tissues. Don't attach a load of germs to your face.

Where your arguments fails is you’re applying logic to the whole thing! There’s already scant evidence that masks have any useful effect at all.

But of course they’ve been latched on to as a cross between a comfort-blanket to make people *feel* they have control over a situation, and a mechanism for signalling virtue. Not forgetting the small but significant subset who simply get a buzz from imposing unpleasant things on others.

 

[MikeWM]

Where your arguments fails is you’re applying logic to the whole thing! There’s already scant evidence that masks have any useful effect at all.

True - this really has been a absolutely terrible period of time for the causes of science and logic

 

[bramling]

True - this really has been a absolutely terrible period of time for the causes of science and logic

That’s where we really needed to have a decent scientifically minded prime minister, instead of a glorified stand-up comedian...

 

[VauxhallandI]

I hope that the law is dropped ASAP about wearing the masks. I am skeptical they are a benefit overall. You see people take them off on trains put them on the table, next passenger is a child and hands all over the table in the mouth etc. But if people chose to wear them that is their choice - as long as they don't expect everyone to wear them. I do have an exemption so I stand out by not having one on (although most people seem to be happy with the visor which to me is a good compromise)

Being the parent of secondary school children, that age group was really happy on Monday knowing they didn't need to wear them in the class room again. So I suspect the majority will stop wearing them in an instant and only wear them where the law dictates.

There are some things I like in the new normal, such as ordering drinks in a pub at the table. Click and collect on cafes. However I do worry about society here. You meet many interesting people talking to people in queues, losing that may not be a good thing overall. It is nice to order a coffee and collect it from the counter, but sometime the person serving me is the only non-family member I have spoken to all week.

I thought in Scotland that they had rightly classified visors as completely pointless?

 

[bramling]

I thought in Scotland that they had rightly classified visors as completely pointless?

We’ve seen arguments in supermarkets over the lack of wearing a mere sticker...

 

[Failed Unit]

I thought in Scotland that they had rightly classified visors as completely pointless?

Yes - but it keeps some of the people "having a go" that believe that Covid is spread entirely by people not wearing masks (The Kent seems to spread better with people wearing them than the original one did when we didn't) Some people seem to appreciate that I am making an effort.

 

[SurreyCommuter]

On a related note, why do some people feel the need to post their vaccine status on social media? Seeing quite a few Facebook profile pictures with an “I’m fully vaccinated” backdrop. It this people essentially saying “you can meet up with me, I’m clean”, or perhaps “aren’t I special, I’ve had the vaccine, not a granny killer”? I find it a very odd thing to do.

Virtue signalling at it's best! Every time I see someone posting that I'm tempted to post something like the following:


(Image shows Peter Griffin from Family Guy saying "OMG Who the hell cares?")

 

[MikeWM]

I thought in Scotland that they had rightly classified visors as completely pointless?

England too now, according to the advice:

A face visor or shield may be worn in addition to a face covering but not instead of one. This is because face visors or shields do not adequately cover the nose and mouth, and do not filter airborne particles.

Not sure when this was added, it wasn't there originally but its been there now for at least a month or two.

Whether they satisfy the *law* or not in England would seem to be an arguable point, but in practice no-one seems to care.

On a related note, why do most face shields say 'FACE SHIELD' in massive letters at the top? It seems a bit silly (though no more silly than anything else that has happened recently).

 

[island]

England too now, according to the advice:



Not sure when this was added, it wasn't there originally but its been there now for at least a month or two.

Whether they satisfy the *law* or not in England would seem to be an arguable point, but in practice no-one seems to care.

Came in in December on the guidance, but the law was left unchanged.

 

[Bikeman78]

Our Director in work is convinced we will become a society where we will wear masks if we get ill, e.g. like Japan.

If I feel ill enough to wear a mask I will stay at home.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 May 2021 ==

On a related note, why do some people feel the need to post their vaccine status on social media? Seeing quite a few Facebook profile pictures with an “I’m fully vaccinated” backdrop. It this people essentially saying “you can meet up with me, I’m clean”, or perhaps “aren’t I special, I’ve had the vaccine, not a granny killer”? I find it a very odd thing to do.

I'm getting almost daily reminders from Facebook regarding the vaccine backdrop for my profile picture. They can get stuffed!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 May 2021 ==

That’s where we really needed to have a decent scientifically minded prime minister, instead of a glorified stand-up comedian...

You have reminded me of Outnumbered. Specifically the episode with the exchange student talking about the comedian that pretends to be the Mayor of London!

 

[Flange Squeal]

At that point the types of places that use CCTV are going to have to be able to politely but firmly require people to take them off.

When I took my motorcycle to the petrol station, the attendant came over the PA to say I must remove my helmet before they'd activate the pump. I then had to re-cover my face again before I could go into the shop to pay. Yet all the car drivers could have their mask on before getting out the car, fuel up, go in to pay, and drive off, at no point exposing their face. Now it had been usual for motorcyclists to have to remove their helmets before going in pre-Covid, but in this age of the majority of customers having their face covered anyway, it did seem a bit odd!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 May 2021 ==

I'm getting almost daily reminders from Facebook regarding the vaccine backdrop for my profile picture. They can get stuffed!

Same here, and it's annoying. I wouldn't use the picture thing anyway, but they've been asking me to do it for ages despite the fact I'm pretty sure they know my age... which is below the current level at which you can get a jab

 

[ExRes]

That’s where we really needed to have a decent scientifically minded prime minister

I imagine that would be a very short list, perhaps a future category for Pointless?

 

[kristiang85]

but they've been asking me to do it for ages despite the fact I'm pretty sure they know my age... which is below the current level at which you can get a jab

Ah but have you not noticed one of the frames say "I will get my COVID vaccination"

It's just virtue-signalling bovine excrement...

 

[bramling]

I imagine that would be a very short list, perhaps a future category for Pointless?

Which is something as a nation we need to think about, instead of the current fad for selecting and electing clown / maverick / freak candidates.

 

[ExRes]

Which is something as a nation we need to think about, instead of the current fad for selecting and electing clown / maverick / freak candidates.

I agree fully, but as voters what do we do? last time we had Johnson and Corbin to choose from, presumably next time it'll be Johnson and Starmer unless both parties find an alternative, in America it was Trump v Biden neither of whom were truly electable, waste your vote and you'll still get one or the other of the 'C' list politicians that fill the ranks of both parties

 

[johnnychips]

As per the title ‘People who prefer the restricted things’, the one thing older people like me really appreciate seems to be table service in pubs. Now this is probably not economical in the long term, but it’s nice. On the other hand we still don’t like not being able to stand at the bar, having to wear our masks to go to the toilet, and being told that standing at a table must carry a great risk of Covid so we must sit down.

 

[bramling]

I agree fully, but as voters what do we do? last time we had Johnson and Corbin to choose from, presumably next time it'll be Johnson and Starmer unless both parties find an alternative, in America it was Trump v Biden neither of whom were truly electable, waste your vote and you'll still get one or the other of the 'C' list politicians that fill the ranks of both parties

I agree as a voter it’s difficult do much more than work with what the parties provide. But the parties are only putting in place what they think the people want. The mayor of London is the absolute worst example. It’s a difficult problem to solve, and I don’t have a solution. Some sharp media scrutiny would be a start, that would weed out some of the rot.

We’ve also got into a vicious cycle where politicians are treated as figures for derision (a reputation which in many cases is increasingly well deserved), but that in itself is going to dissuade decent people from going into it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 May 2021 ==

Ah but have you not noticed one of the frames say "I will get my COVID vaccination"

It's just virtue-signalling bovine excrement...

There’s a whole range to choose from. “Fully vaccinated” is my favourite, as if this confers a great sense of superiority. You can go further by having a “Thank you NHS” message prominently displayed in the middle of this, and for the most virtuous of all have “I donated to Captain Tom” too. It’s sickly!

 

[DelayRepay]

As per the title ‘People who prefer the restricted things’, the one thing older people like me really appreciate seems to be table service in pubs. Now this is probably not economical in the long term, but it’s nice. On the other hand we still don’t like not being able to stand at the bar, having to wear our masks to go to the toilet, and being told that standing at a table must carry a great risk of Covid so we must sit down.

I agree with this.

I also quite liked that some places made more of an effort to provide nice outdoor seating last summer. When we get good weather, dining outdoors is pleasant and reminds me of being on holiday. There was one area where the council closed the road during the evenings so venues could put tables in the street. All very enjoyable but the English weather, and inconvenience caused by closing roads when travel is back at normal levels mean these are unlikely to continue.

Overall though the negatives of the current situation far outweigh these small positives. Over the winter I missed being able to wander round to the pub in an evening for a pint by their cosy fire.

 

[Bantamzen]

This. If someone feels the need to wear a mask, they should be allowed to do so without someone ridiculing them as a “locktivist” and what have you.

Locktivist refers to people who want to impose restrictions like masks on other people.

 

[bramling]

Locktivist refers to people who want to impose restrictions like masks on other people.

Sums it up perfectly. Whilst I'm not overly keen on seeing faces covered (especially as it's something which makes crime easier), if people want to wear the wretched things then that's entirely their call, just don't expect others to be bullied into wearing them.

As regards the point about crime, this is one reason why mask use should never become a normal thing. It isn't a good thing for covered faces to be part and parcel of normal life.

 

[GodAtum]

What I'm worried about is a social split. As I've mentioned on another thread, imagine eating smelly food on a train. that's not illegal but could be annoying to some people.

Now take masks, not wearing one would not be illegal, but could be seen as anti-social behaviour.

 

[bramling]

What I'm worried about is a social split. As I've mentioned on another thread, imagine eating smelly food on a train. that's not illegal but could be annoying to some people.

Now take masks, not wearing one would not be illegal, but could be seen as anti-social behaviour.

I can't see this being an issue in practice, as it's quite likely many or even most people will ditch them just as soon as the law is changed.

We'll be left with the die-hard obsessive types who in some cases will do their best to shame others, but I can't see them getting far.

 

[takno]

What I'm worried about is a social split. As I've mentioned on another thread, imagine eating smelly food on a train. that's not illegal but could be annoying to some people.

Now take masks, not wearing one would not be illegal, but could be seen as anti-social behaviour.

I suspect that you'll see groups of young males in masks being looked at quite suspiciously, and middle-aged women in masks not raising any comment at all. Very much like hoodies were 5 or 10 years ago tbh.

 

[RuralRambler]

I agree as a voter it’s difficult do much more than work with what the parties provide. But the parties are only putting in place what they think the people want. The mayor of London is the absolute worst example. It’s a difficult problem to solve, and I don’t have a solution. Some sharp media scrutiny would be a start, that would weed out some of the rot.

We’ve also got into a vicious cycle where politicians are treated as figures for derision (a reputation which in many cases is increasingly well deserved), but that in itself is going to dissuade decent people from going into it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 May 2021 ==

But then you have Tim Farron who's a brilliant constituency MP and would probably have been a good leader of the LibDems who was basically hounded out of his leadership due to his Christian views. Voters can't have it both ways. There'll be a large number of back bench MPs who'd be good ministers, leaders and maybe PM, but who won't put themselves up for higher office due to be public/media scrutiny of their lives, thoughts and beliefs.

 

[takno]

But then you have Tim Farron who's a brilliant constituency MP and would probably have been a good leader of the LibDems who was basically hounded out of his leadership due to his Christian views. Voters can't have it both ways. There'll be a large number of back bench MPs who'd be good ministers, leaders and maybe PM, but who won't put themselves up for higher office due to be public/media scrutiny of their lives, thoughts and beliefs.

Tim Farron is a brilliant constituency MP, but with the best will in the world he was an awful leader irrespective of his christian views.

He wasn't hounded out because of his christian views at the end of the day - he was hounded out because he couldn't find a way to express his views which didn't come across as illiberal and unchristian. You could argue that the press and a lot of the left were unwilling to give the Lib Dems a fair hearing under circumstances, but he failed to even get a coherent message out to his own party. Ultimately that's a failing of leadership.