Penkridge Disruption

[ChiefPlanner]

Plus if you electrify the Chase line then there's no need for 390 dragging or Voyager substitution!

Very preceptive , this is being worked on as a CP5 scheme - apart from the obvious benefits to the local service (remember it is being resignalled shortly to give 5 min headways , and planned track upgrades) - it would have been an absolute salvation today with an on train diversion , - not buses Wolves to Stafford etc.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Do XC Voyagers have tilt? I thought Virgin retained the Super Voyagers which do tilt.

How fast do Virgin Voyagers go down the Trent Valley (eg Holyhead - Euston trains)?

Why would switching off tilt on a Super Voyager make it faster? Surely the whole point of tilt is to run a higher speeds round bends?

I must have got you confused.
To be clear, VT's 221s are TASS/tilt enabled and can do 125 EPS on the WCML.
XC's 221's have TASS/tilt isolated so are limited to non-EPS speeds which are 110 on the WCML (and 75 at places like Atherstone or Queensville, which have 85 EPS).
220s were always without tilt so are stuck with non-EPS speeds.

For reasons I don't understand the non-tilt Voyagers can do 125 HST speeds between Bushbury and Stafford, but are still limited to non-EPS speeds north of Stafford (via Crewe or Stoke).

I have been on a VT 221 with a tilt failure between Euston and Crewe, and it stuck to the non-EPS limit of 110 throughout (but still managed to keep to time!).
I know this because it displayed the real-time speed on the internal PIS display (something I have never seen before or since) and the guard confirmed the reason.

 

[CosherB]

Thanks for the Voyager info chaps. I have done Crewe - MK on a tilting Voyager and it did seem no slower than a Pendo.

I biking friend of mine who hadn't been on a tilting train before turned to me and said "it's like getting your knee down on the bike!".

 

[ole man]

What degree tilt do Pends and Voyager achieve?

 

[sprinterguy]

What degree tilt do Pends and Voyager achieve?

Pendolinos can tilt to eight degrees and Super Voyagers to six degrees.

 

[MCR247]

I thought 390s could do 9? Or I am going mad?

 

[ole man]

Is that the Maximum tilt on the WCML?

 

[Pumbaa]

For reasons I don't understand the non-tilt Voyagers can do 125 HST speeds between Bushbury and Stafford, but are still limited to non-EPS speeds north of Stafford (via Crewe or Stoke).
.

Thats because there are no HST speeds on the WCML.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I have been on a VT 221 with a tilt failure between Euston and Crewe, and it stuck to the non-EPS limit of 110 throughout (but still managed to keep to time!).
I know this because it displayed the real-time speed on the internal PIS display (something I have never seen before or since) and the guard confirmed the reason.

It fails more than it seems to work in my experience. Drivers aren't too kind about it either.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Service cancellations are taken with consultation with the TOCs under "Management of the Network" and and the service recovery plans.

Delays and cancellations during such incidents are often compounded by stock and train crew displacement and train crew hours which adds to the troubles.

LM have a depot at Crewe, where over half the Brum - Lpool turns are done by the depot. All the stock needed to run the Liverpool - Crewe service would already have been the right side of the disruption, which would have resulted in all the diagrams being cut in half. Surely not too much to ask at all?

All the other reactions I can understand - but this one seems workable; as others have observed LM jack the job in on the Liverpool runs as soon as soon as cow farts these days. And LM in my experience seem to be the worst in shutting an entire route down rather than attempting a partial service.

 

[ole man]

Why do think that is???? Money money money, it is coining in the fine Network Rail will have to pay them.
I know lots of LM staff, and they dont care if nothing runs, because its not them suffering.

 

[Pumbaa]

So do I - they're not the ones making the decisions. Higher up is where the problem is.

 

[ole man]

That was what i meant, forgive me i didnt mean the ground staff

 

[sprinterguy]

I thought 390s could do 9? Or I am going mad?

A quick google search suggests that the Pendolinos can only tilt to 8 degrees, confirmed by numerous sources.

The APT-P could tilt to nine degrees, which compensated for all the lateral forces felt by passengers when rounding curves.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Why do think that is???? Money money money, it is coining in the fine Network Rail will have to pay them.
I know lots of LM staff, and they dont care if nothing runs, because its not them suffering.

What about "company reputation and compensation to customers" ....

Do you really think LM give up willingly for the reason they dont have a wired route they can use........!!!!

LM didnt bring the OLE down .....

 

[ole man]

LM reputation will not suffer as it will blame Network Rail.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Thats because there are no HST speeds on the WCML.

Yes but the oddity is that Bushbury-Stafford is actually part of the WCML.
I know the track was initially upgraded to 125 HST before the OLE was upgraded (ie electrics were still limited to 90), and 125 EPS came later.
It's fairly straight, too.

I remember reading a WCRM review which said they had been asked if non-tilt speeds could be raised above 110 on straight sections, and the SRA said it was investigating if this could be done.
But here we are with WCRM finished and it's still 110 non-EPS, even on the brand-new TV4 stretch.
On the other hand, I have noticed Pendos are on full tilt through Rugby and Lichfield, so it can't be that straight even after rebuilding.

And then there's no tilt at all Warrington-Wigan.

 

[jha4ceb]

NRE still showing delays between Wolves and Stafford -- is it not fixed yet?!

 

[ChiefPlanner]

LM reputation will not suffer as it will blame Network Rail.

The public dont see Network Rail as the service deliverer (or not in this case) - and the affected operators will of course get the critiscism.

One has to ask questions about 3 days worth of delays and cancellations - I could go on.

 

[87015]

LM reputation will not suffer as it will blame Network Rail.

LM don't have a reputation that could go down any more.

 

[LouJ]

There now seems some semblance of normal service operating from Wolves to Stafford. The new overhead was tested at around 9 am this morning and the line reopened. However the chaos continued well into the morning.

The net result is that there have been problems on Friday 2nd, Monday 5th, Tuesday 6th and now Wednesday 7th December. Someone needs sacking over the fact that it has taken three attempts to replace the same section of overhead wiring (I am assuming that it is a case of third time lucky!).

As mentioned in an earlier post Stafford station staff have been great. Went via Tamworth this morning only to find Birmingham to Derby had no trains due to signalling failure of the new installation!

Continued to Nuneaton where the staff were appalling. Arrived Nuneaton at 0907 on a packed LM Euston service conveying passengers from Liverpool, Crewe, Stoke, Stafford, Lichfield and Tamworth hoping to catch the 0910 through to Birmingham.

With 200+ people walking down the platform the 0910 was sent out with a care in the world for all the passengers sent that way for the connection. Most were left waiting for another half hour to catch the next service!!!! What was Nuneaton playing at --- no conecpt of keeping the customers happy on another day of severe disruption by holding the train for a couple of minutes. The guard and platform attendant were particularly "nasty" suffering from a total lacking of flexibility in very demanding circumstances. Perhaps they should understand that rail travellers pay their wages ... the end of the story was we were held outside New Street for 5 minutes waiting a platform so the 2 minutes lost would have had no consequence.

It was yet another disgraceful episode in the inept handling of major problems on the railways and begs the question "When will they ever learn?"

PS it was LM 350s that brought the wires down in each case!

 

[Old Timer]

...
With 200+ people walking down the platform the 0910 was sent out with a care in the world for all the passengers sent that way for the connection. Most were left waiting for another half hour to catch the next service!!!! What was Nuneaton playing at --- no conecpt of keeping the customers happy on another day of severe disruption by holding the train for a couple of minutes. The guard and platform attendant were particularly "nasty" suffering from a total lacking of flexibility in very demanding circumstances. Perhaps they should understand that rail travellers pay their wages ... the end of the story was we were held outside New Street for 5 minutes waiting a platform so the 2 minutes lost would have had no consequence.

It was yet another disgraceful episode in the inept handling of major problems on the railways and begs the question "When will they ever learn?"...

How do you know that the service was not already full ?

 

[LouJ]

How do you know that the service was not already full ?

I managed to get the train. It was full but not as packed as other trains I had used that morning. Neither the guard or the platform staff had checked the loading so that is no excuse.

Its all about providing information to customers - if that was the decision then it should have been communicated. I suffered two hours of travel marred by lack of communication - thats why I made the point.

 

[ushawk]

More problems today at Penkridge, thankfully not overhead wire problems but signalling problems, NRE reporting delays of about 45 minutes.

 

[LouJ]

More problems today at Penkridge, thankfully not overhead wire problems but signalling problems, NRE reporting delays of about 45 minutes.

If you are lucky!

So to recap - last Friday wires down, Monday this week wires down, Tuesday this week wires down, Wednesday this week putting wires up, today signalling problem. What a wonderful railway we have!

 

[sonic2009]

1 week later Overhead wire Problems again at Penkridge.

 

[Schnellzug]

Whose fault are these things, that happen every single day somewhere or other? Is it just that Network rail doesn't get enough money, or is Network rail incompetently managed? Does separation of infrastructure have anything to do with it? if everything was back under state ownership, would that make any difference? What actually needs to be done to make it reliable?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

What about "company reputation and compensation to customers" ....

Do you really think LM give up willingly for the reason they dont have a wired route they can use........!!!!

LM didnt bring the OLE down .....

It seems to me that TOCs rarely seem to be worried about those kind of things, since shareholders aren't going to be worried about "reputation" as long as the share price holds up, and they aren't worried about what their "customers" think of them since the Government supports them in any case, and they usually have a captive market. It doesn't even make any difference when it's Franchise Renewal time, it seems, since apparently the Government doesn't take past performance or reputation into account and just basis it purely on what grandiose promises the bidders make- or how cheaply they say that they can do it for. This is no more than you'd expect from Politicians, i suppose.

 

[martinsh]

1 week later Overhead wire Problems again at Penkridge.

Really ? Seems to be OK now ?

 

[Bald Rick]

It seems to me that TOCs rarely seem to be worried about those kind of things, since shareholders aren't going to be worried about "reputation" as long as the share price holds up, and they aren't worried about what their "customers" think of them since the Government supports them in any case, and they usually have a captive market. It doesn't even make any difference when it's Franchise Renewal time, it seems, since apparently the Government doesn't take past performance or reputation into account and just basis it purely on what grandiose promises the bidders make- or how cheaply they say that they can do it for. This is no more than you'd expect from Politicians, i suppose.

Perhaps you should ask NX shareholders about the value of reputation

 

[Tomonthetrain]

Reputation? National Express? Your having a laugh!