Pendolino testing - ECML

[shaun]

If the pendos weren't so cramped and rattly i'd welcome them, but they make such a noise at speed and the interior design is the worst i've seen for any train. Looking at the Italian variations, they're much more spacious and internally seem like an entirely different train. Why did we have to get it so wrong? Oh yeah Virgin wanted their trains to look/feel like their planes, with turbulence.

So if they can get it right for ECML, what the hell!

 

[Wath Yard]

CrossCountry could probably use a few Pendos by then if all the proposed electrifications continue on-track. Or they could be used for regional / transpennine services

You don't buy very expensive 140 mph tilting trains for regional services.

 

[LE Greys]

If the pendos weren't so cramped and rattly i'd welcome them, but they make such a noise at speed and the interior design is the worst i've seen for any train. Looking at the Italian variations, they're much more spacious and internally seem like an entirely different train. Why did we have to get it so wrong? Oh yeah Virgin wanted their trains to look/feel like their planes, with turbulence.

So if they can get it right for ECML, what the hell!

They're also a lot bigger. Even though they have some gauging problems over here, they had to shrink the design, and that was not helpful. On an entirely frivolous note, they also look like Fiat Pintos from some angles, and I've never understood this obsession with big headlights.

 

[DXMachina]

Via where exactly?

(Anyway, Glasgow already has 1tp2h to Bristol, albeit via an indirect route.)

Southern WCML - I know the Oxford-Birmingham route isn't being wired. HS2 will free up enough capacity to put new long distance services through

 

[western Champion]

doesn't pumbaa work with pendolinos everyday?

no !!!

 

[DXMachina]

You don't buy very expensive 140 mph tilting trains for regional services.

Patently you DO, as thats the plan thats been suggested for them once HS2's CC services start....

 

[Wath Yard]

No you don't. They will be 25 years old by then and will be cascaded to end their days on any suitable, or as suitable as possible, route. That is very different to the idea I commented on which was buy some more now.

 

[MCR247]

You might be thinking of Voyagers; on Pendolinos the carriage letters are most definitely permanent signs.

Not permanent, they have some stickers these days and the screens also say the carriage letter

 

[Eagle]

Not permanent, they have some stickers these days and the screens also say the carriage letter

Well yes, but I meant in the sense that effort, admittedly minimal, would be required to change the letters on the carriages (rather than on Voyagers, where you can just type the new letters in, as happens every time they couple up).

 

[Pumbaa]

But they have been redesignated. G is now a standard. The DMRF is now L.

If you glance at the 'Pendolino lengthening' thread, VT staff have already posted the new lettering etc. I am only reposting the information from that thread.

 

[LE Greys]

No you don't. They will be 25 years old by then and will be cascaded to end their days on any suitable, or as suitable as possible, route. That is very different to the idea I commented on which was buy some more now.

I expect it will be the MML "we finally got around to it" electrification plus London-Norwich, although they'll be a bit overblown for both without some sort of upgrade, but their acceleration should help.

 

[Wath Yard]

If you glance at the 'Pendolino lengthening' thread, VT staff have already posted the new lettering etc. I am only reposting the information from that thread.

I saw the new carriages being delivered today and they had F & G on them.

 

[Pumbaa]

Fair enough - not everyone can be right!

 

[Bridge189]

If the pendos weren't so cramped and rattly i'd welcome them, but they make such a noise at speed and the interior design is the worst i've seen for any train. Looking at the Italian variations, they're much more spacious and internally seem like an entirely different train. Why did we have to get it so wrong? Oh yeah Virgin wanted their trains to look/feel like their planes, with turbulence.

So if they can get it right for ECML, what the hell!

I would think EC would internally build their own design. Doubt it would just be VTs interior.

 

[Marton]

I feel that East Coast should order 31+ Pendolino trains

NO NO NO

Pendolini are cramped and uncomfortable with no headroom for window passengers in standard who have to sit with there heads on one side.

 

[MCR247]

Well yes, but I meant in the sense that effort, admittedly minimal, would be required to change the letters on the carriages (rather than on Voyagers, where you can just type the new letters in, as happens every time they couple up).

Actually VT 221s have the same stickers as 390s IIRC

They just say A/J or whatever I think...

 

[sprinterguy]

Now a Pendolino class 390 as used on the West Coast Main Line is a good off the shelf option. I do think its a bit claustrophobic because its designed to tilt. That can be improved upon a bit by working on the decor and fittings I would hope. But if you want tilt then there is a price to pay but they will be more use than an iep. Having travelled on Pendolinos I have a problem with the airconditioning - its a bit too cold (waste of energy) and is noisy. It is a real relief when it occaisionally stops. I am sure that could be improved anyway. Alstoms Pendolino product is not restricted to just the 390 so a differing non-tilt body would still be a Pendolino. Of course the UK loading guage currently means that only the 390 version of Pendolino suits. Also remember that Alstom and the railways did not have problems with the introduction of the 390s so can I say they are reliable from the start ?..

I'm of the opinion that if Pendolinos are built with no need to tilt then the best idea for an Intercity EMU would be to combine the Adelante bodyshell (and interior layout, to some extent though with revisions) with the Pendolino traction package. I think that then we would be looking at a decent Intercity EMU design.

I think a great strength of the Pendolino idea is that GNER could have say ten of them to strenghten the existing service. Then later on they could get cascaded to the West Coast as and when they are needed. This would reassure the owning ROSCO and leave options open for complete fleet change later on the GNER. That is when the HSTs are really near life expiry and/or when a newer better train is available. Then again the MK4s could probably be found a use elsewhere leading to a follow on order of Pendolinos soon after the first.

That is indeed what GNER (As others have said, it's been a long time since GNER operated the East Coast route now!) proposed to do in around 2000, purchasing initially two and later amended to seven but finally IIRC settling on four Pendolinos to supplement their 225 fleet as an add on to the Virgin Pendolino order.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Patently you DO, as thats the plan thats been suggested for them once HS2's CC services start....

I can't imagine that the opening of HS2 will release more than about 20 Pendolinos, as there will still be a need for a good number of them working WCML services, albeit in general shorter distance services with more frequent stops. Admittedly, there is then the question of what to do with those units that do get released. It's a shame that the entire length of the Crosscountry network is unlikely to be electrified any time soon, if ever: It would take an awful lot of electrification schemes to allow, say, the Edinburgh to Plymouth services to go fully electric.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Can't wait until the wires go up on the Great Western, and we get Pendolinos down here as well...

If you're suggesting that they are Pendolinos depicted on that poster then you're wrong; they're definitely Voyagers.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

If enough are ordered will they get made here ? .

Well, the original tranche of Pendolinos were constructed/put together at Washwood Heath in Birmingham, but unfortunately the factory has since been closed (demolished?). I think it would take a hefty order of new Pendolinos for Alstom to consider building them in the UK.

 

[northwichcat]

All sounds overly complex to me. Our train: 1-18. Simple.

IIRC these aren't identifiable on the actual train but by what it says on the platforms where the trains are stopped.

 

[Mike C]

It is if you know where to look. Around solebar level next to the bogie there will be a number like 3730154 which means R5 of 3015. This however only goes as far as the R9 which is the end of the half set but the passenger display system next to the doors shows it counting from 1 to 18 as well as the platform signs.

 

[AlanFry1]

I think that East Coast, First Hull Trains, Grand Central, First Great Western should order Class 390s insted of the IEP, espcially if the ECML and GWML is fully electrified. Alsthom could cotrat the building of the Class 390s to Bombardier, like they did with the Class 91/Mark 4 fleet in the 1990s

 

[Schnellzug]

Would there be much point to Pendos on the EC, which isn't noted for its curves, south of Edinburgh at any rate? The Mk 4s were designed to Tilt to be installed, weren't they, which they never did. Why should Travellers have to put up with trains that are more cramped, and have smaller Windows, than necessary, just because a Leasing Company thinks they could make a bit of money out of it?

Anyway, my favourite conspiracy theory, from a comment on Youtube: "East coast is up for tender in october, Richard branson does want east coast, This train they wanted kept secret, people who posted the times been threatened with the sack, kings cross closed whilst it was there. i smell something fishy". Indeed. They even closed KX so that they could keep it hush-hush.

 

[jopsuk]

Which is ridiculous, as there will have been so many people with access to the details of it running that keeping it secret was never a possibility.

 

[ainsworth74]

Would there be much point to Pendos on the EC, which isn't noted for its curves, south of Edinburgh at any rate?

Eh? Have you seen the ECML north of Darlington? Plenty of twists and turns all the way up to Edinburgh.

 

[sprinterguy]

Would there be much point to Pendos on the EC, which isn't noted for its curves, south of Edinburgh at any rate?

South of Darlington, more accurately. It's pretty sinuous north of there, for a start there's a pretty notorious curve at Morpeth!

Still though, I don't think that introducing tilting trains on the East Coast will bring many benefits, and I certainly wouldn't want to see Pendolinos in their present form taking over. The northern sections of the ECML where tilt would be likely to bring the greatest journey time improvements are all sections of two-track railway that are already constrained in terms of capacity and have to deal with a mix of different train speeds: 125mph East Coast and Crosscountry services, 100mph TPE to Newcastle, Northern services timed for a maximum of 75mph and the heavy anglo-scottish and north east coal traffic that runs at no more than 60mph. Speeding up the fast services on the northern end of the ECML would only eat further into the limited number of paths that are available.

As I say, I'd like to see an Intercity EMU developed that combines the Adelante bodyshell with the Pendolino traction package, with no requirement for tilt.

 

[HSTEd]

Adelante has the rather annoying problem of having plug sockets at some table seats in first class being obscured by the table legs.

And the tables not being secured to the sides fo the carriages.....

So would Mk 4T have required some sort of TASS system then?
If not.... why can't we simply have an EMU with that body profile?

 

[sprinterguy]

Adelante has the rather annoying problem of having plug sockets at some table seats in first class being obscured by the table legs.

And the tables not being secured to the sides fo the carriages.....

Well, when I originally mentioned it further up this thread I did say that I'd like to see some interior alterations, with a mind as to the poorly secured tables. Although surely vibrations being passed through the tables would be much less of an issue on an EMU compared to a DMU.

 

[DownSouth]

I think that East Coast, First Hull Trains, Grand Central, First Great Western should order Class 390s insted of the IEP, espcially if the ECML and GWML is fully electrified. Alsthom could cotrat the building of the Class 390s to Bombardier, like they did with the Class 91/Mark 4 fleet in the 1990s

Judging by the complaints that many have made on this forum, perhaps they should not be Class 390s as used currently but an updated specification instead. Things like the interior specification, a version without tilt equipment (and with a different body profile) included, or specialised compatibility with a specific diesel loco for services extended beyond the electrified areas could be changed compared to the current Class 390 specification.

Instead of Bombardier building them for Alstom, the new Hitachi factory could build these rather than the IEP. New tooling would have to be installed at whichever factory was building them, so it may as well be done at a new factory as a way of introducing a second rolling stock factory to Britain - as a way of putting some eggs in a different basket in case Bombardier do close their Derby operations.

 

[transmanche]

I think that East Coast, First Hull Trains, Grand Central, First Great Western should order Class 390s insted of the IEP, espcially if the ECML and GWML is fully electrified.

Personally, I think I'd opt for a UK version of the Siemens Velaro.

 

[jopsuk]

By the time they'd shortened the vehicles, lowered the height and considerably narrowed them, I'm not sure you'd be so keen on them. They certainly wouldn't be as roomy as the Euro-spec, and obviously nowhere near the "International Spec"

 

[David Goddard]

If you're suggesting that they are Pendolinos depicted on that poster then you're wrong; they're definitely Voyagers.

OK, I stand corrected. Would be nice though (Pendolinos not Voyagers) on the GWML