Pendolino testing - ECML

[dave59]

Never let passengers get in the way of running a railway, eh?

Given the rather successful campaign to 'save' the Highland Chieftain, I don't see that idea gaining much momentum. East Coast and everyone who came before them managed to operate two fleets of stock, so why shouldn't the next lot with the bi-mode IEP? (AFIAA, bi-modes will need to be built for the Great Western to Penzance anyway - open to correction)

Or "better connections and porterage" (Foster report) with perhaps a 2+5 ex-EC HST at Edinburgh? Through trains would continue north as electrification is installed which might be sooner rather than later. The requirement for the Bi-Mode IEP needs to be minimised and the electric version maximised IMO.

 

[scotsman]

Or "better connections and porterage" (Foster report) with perhaps a 2+5 ex-EC HST at Edinburgh? Through trains would continue north as electrification is installed which might be sooner rather than later. The requirement for the Bi-Mode IEP needs to be minimised and the electric version maximised IMO.

You'll find passengers are put off by changes - the USP of the Chieftain is that it's direct to London

 

[tbtc]

Never let passengers get in the way of running a railway, eh?

Given the rather successful campaign to 'save' the Highland Chieftain, I don't see that idea gaining much momentum. East Coast and everyone who came before them managed to operate two fleets of stock, so why shouldn't the next lot with the bi-mode IEP? (AFIAA, bi-modes will need to be built for the Great Western to Penzance anyway - open to correction)

How serious was the "threat" to withdraw the Highland Chieftain, or was this just a case of someone whipping up a scare so that they could then claim that they "saved" a service that was never under serious threat?

 

[AlanFry1]

The DfT need to announce replacement of the 225 fleet with the IEP to make the project bigger and better value - and kill off the Pendolino idea before it gets any further. If the EC Scottish routes north of Edinburgh can be turned over to Scotrail, ICEC could be all electric with a cascade of all ex- InterCity stock. The Hull/Harrogates chould be turned over to open access using eVoyagers or the CSRE Polaris.

the Class 390 is a good idea for the ECML and GWML. They should electrify more parts of those limes


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Never let passengers get in the way of running a railway, eh?

Given the rather successful campaign to 'save' the Highland Chieftain, I don't see that idea gaining much momentum. East Coast and everyone who came before them managed to operate two fleets of stock, so why shouldn't the next lot with the bi-mode IEP? (AFIAA, bi-modes will need to be built for the Great Western to Penzance anyway - open to correction)

or they can electrify the Edinburgh to Aberdeen line section of the ECML, it would also benefit Scotrail services as well

 

[GNER 373]

Crikey. Someone who supposedly loves them, wants to cause more damage to them than i do

Haha very good!

 

[ChristopherJ]

The Pendolino in to KX coincided with my journey home at around 23:00 hrs so I made a detour off of the Underground and went upstairs in to The Cross to see it - it was berthed in platform 1 and departed about 20 mins early IIRC. It looked quite impressive underneath the renovated train shed.

I was the guy in jeans with a navy blue coat and blue hoodie to any one I said hello.

 

[IanXC]

The Pendolino in to KX coincided with my journey home at around 23:00 hrs so I made a detour off of the Underground and went upstairs in to The Cross to see it - it was berthed in platform 1 and departed about 20 mins early IIRC. It looked quite impressive underneath the renovated train shed.

I was the guy in jeans with a navy blue coat and blue hoodie to any one I said hello.

That's reasonable then, it was booked 2.15 departure at York but left at 1.49

 

[jopsuk]

the Class 390 is a good idea for the ECML and GWML. They should electrify more parts of those limes


--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


or they can electrify the Edinburgh to Aberdeen line section of the ECML, it would also benefit Scotrail services as well

Transport Scotland have long term plans to electrify to Aberdeen I believe, after the Central Belt commuter network is done. But I don't think they've any plans to do the Inverness line, and there really isn't much of a business case for doing it- the Highland Chieftain is the Inverness-London Kings Cross service (one each way per day). Yes, it would benefit Scotrail services as well, but not enough for it to be economically viable, as it is quite a long way through terrain that will make it tricky with lots of tunnels that may not be big enough.

 

[tbtc]

the Class 390 is a good idea for the ECML and GWML. They should electrify more parts of those limes

Such a shame that Alan has been banned - I was looking forward to his thoughts on electrifying limes

 

[GNER 91128]

Such a shame that Alan has been banned - I was looking forward to his thoughts on electrifying limes

Presumably you can daisy chain limes together much like lemons and create an electrical current?

 

[Martin67]

Presumably you can daisy chain limes together much like lemons and create an electrical current?

If you could create an electrical currant, you'd have most of a fruit salad.

Sorry, back on topic: Did 390055 make it back up the ECML to Edinburgh this morning?

 

[tbtc]

Presumably you can daisy chain limes together much like lemons and create an electrical current?

One of his better ideas then.

I'll look out for further details in the next (cit)RUS

 

[trainplan1]

One of his better ideas then.

I'll look out for further details in the next (cit)RUS

(f)Route utilisation strategy...



I'll get my coat

 

[Yew]

the Class 390 is a good idea for the ECML and GWML. They should electrify more parts of those limes

Nope, no point in using stock limilted by a tilt profile if it doesnt tilt or doesnt need to tilt. There is much better LDPE stock than a pendolino around.

 

[northwichcat]

Nope, no point in using stock limilted by a tilt profile if it doesnt tilt or doesnt need to tilt. There is much better LDPE stock than a pendolino around.

Isn't the alternative Pendolino option being explored because it's cheaper than the proposed IEP option?

 

[83G/84D]

Any chance of a Pendolino drag to Penzance with a 57/3 this summer like a few years back with the Milton Keynes to Penzance with the Mk3 loco hauled set and DVT's!??

 

[northwichcat]

Any chance of a Pendolino drag to Penzance with a 57/3 this summer like a few years back with the Milton Keynes to Penzance with the Mk3 loco hauled set and DVT's!??

No. XC and FGW serve Penzance while Virgin have all the Pendolinos.

 

[scotsman]

Could anyone with TRUST access post the performance times, to compare with the booked times

 

[HSTEd]

Nope, no point in using stock limilted by a tilt profile if it doesnt tilt or doesnt need to tilt. There is much better LDPE stock than a pendolino around.

None that is electric and fits into a British loading gauge and is ready to go to the production line almost immediately.

And there is always the possibility of TASS being deployed on bits of the ECML and lower GWML if the electrification does eventualyl end up all the way to Plymouth (made viable by diverting all trains to run via Bristol instead of the B&H).

 

[ainsworth74]

And there is always the possibility of TASS being deployed on bits of the ECML and lower GWML if the electrification does eventualyl end up all the way to Plymouth (made viable by diverting all trains to run via Bristol instead of the B&H).

Has there ever been a study done on the costs (both financial and also in terms of paths for freight and local services), likely speed increases and therefore time savings that could be made if the ECML north of Darlington was equipped with TASS and tilt capable 125mph rolling stock?

 

[northwichcat]

tilt capable 125mph rolling stock?

Remember Pendolinos are 140mph capable. It was only because the WCML project went over budget that the 140mph speeds on the WCML were never introduced.

 

[ainsworth74]

Remember Pendolinos are 140mph capable. It was only because the WCML project went over budget that the 140mph speeds on the WCML were never introduced.

Of course but is anyone seriously proposing 140mph for the ECML? Also 221s (were they to have tilt restored on the XC examples) are only capable of 125mph. So I feel it likely that any study done on fitting TASS at the northern end of the ECML would be looking at 125mph not 140mph.

 

[HSTEd]

Of course but is anyone seriously proposing 140mph for the ECML? Also 221s (were they to have tilt restored on the XC examples) are only capable of 125mph. So I feel it likely that any study done on fitting TASS at the northern end of the ECML would be looking at 125mph not 140mph.

Well BR did.... but yeah.

The major cost for TASS is the guaging work..... how is that done? Is the guaging equipment on the NMT or is it a seperate thing? Can you gauge a line simply driving through it at normal speeds using the requisite equipment or does it take a blockade?

 

[YorkshireBear]

Of course but is anyone seriously proposing 140mph for the ECML? Also 221s (were they to have tilt restored on the XC examples) are only capable of 125mph. So I feel it likely that any study done on fitting TASS at the northern end of the ECML would be looking at 125mph not 140mph.

I was thinking that you know. You could then have XC and EC running at faster speeds north of darlington, could be interesting i think. Of course the 220s wouldnt be able to use it... which kind of ruins the point, along with HSTs and 185s.

Would increasing the speeds of EC and some XC services actually reduce the capcity on the ECML due to speed differentials.

 

[ainsworth74]

Well BR did.... but yeah.

And they dropped it pretty sharpish once it became obvious that the only way to do it was to move to in-cab signalling and I don't think anything has changed to enable that requirement to be dropped.

Would increasing the speeds of EC and some XC services actually reduce the capcity on the ECML due to speed differentials.

Yeah that's one of my main concerns with this. We know that one of the main stumbling blocks for 140mph on the southern end of the ECML after signalling issues is that it would eat up a lot of paths for other services. So would the same be true if we sped the north end of the ECML up to 125mph? In which case would the loss of paths outweigh any gains in terms of journey times?

So to repeat my earlier question have any of the various industry bodies ever given a look to fitting TASS at the north end of the ECML?

 

[swt_passenger]

So to repeat my earlier question have any of the various industry bodies ever given a look to fitting TASS at the north end of the ECML?

This New Civil Engineer report (heading only unless a subscriber) from way back suggests Virgin must have looked at it:

http://www.nce.co.uk/virgin-rules-out-tilting-trains-for-ecml/827027.article

 

[HSTEd]

Well I read an article in some trade magazine from way back that definately sounded like Alstom wanted to install it all over the place.

 

[ainsworth74]

Well I read an article in some trade magazine from way back that definately sounded like Alstom wanted to install it all over the place.

Oh I'm sure they would then they would have an excuse to sell 390s to everyone! Having it actually be worthwhile on the other hand

 

[Yew]

If the shape of the Pendolinos bodyshell was changed, could they fit in guage when tilted, and hence not need as extensive gauge work, and maybe not even TASS?

 

[IanXC]

In terms of infrastructure clearance have works on the ECML made provision for tilt since the IC225s were proposed to tilt? I'm thinking as and when works are required a la bridges and electrification.