Pendolino testing - ECML

[Yew]

Would the pantographs interact? The apt had its power cars in the middle as the where worried that if they where too far away the ohl could bounce and lose electrical contact for the second engine

 

[HSTEd]

When the production HSTs were being designed there was apparently a 3000hp power unit that would have fit into the power car bodyshell, but this idea was never taken up as the additional power was not necessary and would have led to higher fuel consumption and there were also concerns over higher axle rates. And of course, the East Coast HST sets were originally meant to be higher rated at 2500hp, hence them being class 254, to cope with the longer eight carriage formations although nowadays they cope perfectly happily with nine carriage formations still with 2250hp per power car.

So with a 3000hp power unit, a single power car would be sufficient to take a train forward over the Highland main line but with the MTU re-engine project only recently completed and the trains so late on in their life it's not really going to be a feasible proposition.

So we would have to zombiefy the best of the Cl43 power cars, disband a few of the Cl91 rakes and distribute the Mark 4s to the remaining ones (apart from buffets) and then form up special formations of Mk 3 coaches and Mk 4 buffets for the Cl91/43 combinations.
The remaining Power cars, Mk 3 coaches, Mk 4 (and any spare Mk 3) DVTs and Mk 3 buffets could be formed into 1+4/5+DVT formations.

Rewiring the Mk 3s back to single phase electrics would likely be required (unless you can get hold of the Chiltern/Pretendolino ones) at which point you would have to refit the ETS supply on the HST power car attached to the formation to be a single phase alternator or use a fancy modern static converter.
All the smaller 1+4/5+DVT rakes would require is refitting the controls of the DVT to work with the HST power car.

 

[junglejames]

When the production HSTs were being designed there was apparently a 3000hp power unit that would have fit into the power car bodyshell, but this idea was never taken up as the additional power was not necessary and would have led to higher fuel consumption and there were also concerns over higher axle rates. And of course, the East Coast HST sets were originally meant to be higher rated at 2500hp, hence them being class 254, to cope with the longer eight carriage formations although nowadays they cope perfectly happily with nine carriage formations still with 2250hp per power car.

So with a 3000hp power unit, a single power car would be sufficient to take a train forward over the Highland main line but with the MTU re-engine project only recently completed and the trains so late on in their life it's not really going to be a feasible proposition.

Nope, they would struggle with just a single 3000 hp power car. Acceleration would have been worse, and you are leaving no room for future demand or changes. The engines would have been going hell for leather, and really upped the fuel bill.
The 67s have worse acceleration than a HST, and they have 3200hp. Any more than a handful of coaches (ie Chiltern rakes) and they dont like it much. A single 3000hp power car with 8/9 coaches would reach 125, but boy would it take its time, and then it would hammer the track just like the 67s.

Makes sense why BR turned down 3000hp. They knew they would still need another powercar, so 3000hp was an unnecessary extra for reasons quoted.

 

[GNER 373]

2012 hasn't really treated this forum very well has it? We've now got AlanFry1 covering the ECML and VTPreston_Tez covering the WCML, I can only hope that someone comes along soon to take up the mantle of the GWML nonsense ideas pusher...

Shame really as this thread was quite interesting when it started.

I just wanted to know if anyone is going to catch the Pendolino on its test run, you know the Pendolino ECML test run that is the topic of this thread....not the projected 63 carriage 91/Mk4's etc etc that have washed out the actual point in the thread!

Anyone? Anyone going to see it!?
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Hopefully some real 390 testing info will push all this fantasy stuff off the agenda tonight...

I'll see what I can do! Pictures will follow.....

 

[sprinterguy]

Nope, they would struggle with just a single 3000 hp power car. Acceleration would have been worse, and you are leaving no room for future demand or changes. The engines would have been going hell for leather, and really upped the fuel bill.
The 67s have worse acceleration than a HST, and they have 3200hp. Any more than a handful of coaches (ie Chiltern rakes) and they dont like it much. A single 3000hp power car with 8/9 coaches would reach 125, but boy would it take its time, and then it would hammer the track just like the 67s.

You misunderstand me: I didn't suggest that all HSTs should operate/should have operated with a single power car: That would have completely destroyed one of the main features of the HST concept. I was suggesting that a single, 3000hp power car located at one end of a 225 rake in place of the DVT would be sufficient to power East Coast services where they run away from the wires, usually at no more than a maximum 90-100mph, as a "budget" bi-mode solution, albeit as I stated an unlikely one.

 

[SkinnyDave]

I just wanted to know if anyone is going to catch the Pendolino on its test run, you know the Pendolino ECML test run that is the topic of this thread....not the projected 63 carriage 91/Mk4's etc etc that have washed out the actual point in the thread!

Anyone? Anyone going to see it!?
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I'll see what I can do! Pictures will follow.....

Hi There,

I am going to try and see it at Prestonpans tonight.
I will try and take a photo.

Cheers

 

[GNER 373]

Hi There,

I am going to try and see it at Prestonpans tonight.
I will try and take a photo.

Cheers

Good stuff! I'm headed for Newcastle Central for its 5 minute scheduled break 23/57 - 00/02 hopefully will catch a few good shots there!

 

[GNER 373]

Only if they look like this

Or this http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ZNuViHKo9...ral+Platform+1+on+an+incredibly+quite+day.jpg

 

[sprinterguy]

Or this http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ZNuViHKo9...ral+Platform+1+on+an+incredibly+quite+day.jpg

This is actually what GNER had in mind for their Pendolinos when they were looking to order a handful in about 2000:

 

[sprinterguy]

Only if they look like this

And here's a similar treatment as applied to an original image:
http://www.fictitiousliveries.co.uk/photo.php?emu390067_IC.jpg

 

[GNER 373]

This is actually what GNER had in mind for their Pendolinos when they were looking to order a handful in about 2000:

Ha, that's the picture I was wanting to post originally! Good find!

 

[Mr395008]

Will staff let you in central station (NCL) at that time? They normally don't. I wanted to but am worried they won't let me get into the station.

 

[Yew]

And here's a similar treatment as applied to an original image:
http://www.fictitiousliveries.co.uk/photo.php?emu390067_IC.jpg

I think pendos would be much better received if they had that livery, and larger windows.... Although maybe a little more white on the front

 

[junglejames]

You misunderstand me: I didn't suggest that all HSTs should operate/should have operated with a single power car: That would have completely destroyed one of the main features of the HST concept. I was suggesting that a single, 3000hp power car located at one end of a 225 rake in place of the DVT would be sufficient to power East Coast services where they run away from the wires, usually at no more than a maximum 90-100mph, as a "budget" bi-mode solution, albeit as I stated an unlikely one.

Ah i apologise. Yep, regear them for 100mph, and that would work quite nicely. Except you couldnt have them on the train all the way from London. They would need to actually be regeared for 100mph to be any use, and once that happened, I doubt you could have them on the back of a set going 125mph, even if they are shut down. So you would have to swap the locos over at Edinburgh. May as well keep DVTs in the consist then.

For a modern version though, how about building more 125mph electric locos and DVTs, and get an add on order for DRS' new locos.
The new electrics and DVTs could work with the HST Mk3 sets (suitably equipped with auto doors and retention tanks), with a loco change at Edinburgh for the Inverness and Aberdeen services.
Got to be cheaper than IEP.

 

[Anon Mouse]

Will staff let you in central station (NCL) at that time? They normally don't. I wanted to but am worried they won't let me get into the station.

Explain to the cleaners I'm sure if you are up front with them and don't get arsey you should be ok. I think they can tell the difference between vagrants and enthusuasts

 

[GNER 373]

Will staff let you in central station (NCL) at that time? They normally don't. I wanted to but am worried they won't let me get into the station.

They do when I am the staff!
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Will staff let you in central station (NCL) at that time? They normally don't. I wanted to but am worried they won't let me get into the station.

They do when I am the staff!

I think the last inbound EC train is 00:30 I'd just let someone know what your doing there should be ok, they're a good bunch!

 

[Anon Mouse]

I have no problems either, but I'm also staff so can use the locked gate!

 

[GNER 373]

Do you work for EC? I might see you there Anon Mouse...

The last EC service comes in at 00:45 so I'm sure there will be staff about who you can ask Mr395008

 

[ash39]

Wouldn't mind trying to catch a picture of it at York but I'm full of cold tonight, hopefully be better tomorrow, anyone know how long it's scheduled to stop at York or is it just a pass through?

 

[GNER 373]

Wouldn't mind trying to catch a picture of it at York but I'm full of cold tonight, hopefully be better tomorrow, anyone know how long it's scheduled to stop at York or is it just a pass through?

It's getting into York at 02:10 and it looks as though you'll have 5 mins tomorrow night/Wednesday morning as its departure is down as 02:15

 

[ash39]

Might have a go, see how I feel. I can see myself being at the wrong platform and having to run round an empty station like an idiot... If it's heading northbound I'd imagine it'd come through the main platform where the EC trains stop, 6 I think.

Anyone at York tonight, if you could let me know if it stops at 5 and then I'll know for tomorrow that it'll likely be 6. Cheers!

 

[Mr395008]

Okay, I'm tempted to just get a pic of it on the approach into Central Station, perhaps from Redheugh Bridge. Will decide in a bit

They do when I am the staff!
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They do when I am the staff!

I think the last inbound EC train is 00:30 I'd just let someone know what your doing there should be ok, they're a good bunch!

 

[GNER 373]

Okay, I'm tempted to just get a pic of it on the approach into Central Station, perhaps from Redheugh Bridge. Will decide in a bit

I've pondered all day about where to catch it on the mainline but it's mostly dark on every stretch of line I'm near to...at least the station will be lit!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Might have a go, see how I feel. I can see myself being at the wrong platform and having to run round an empty station like an idiot... If it's heading northbound I'd imagine it'd come through the main platform where the EC trains stop, 6 I think.

Anyone at York tonight, if you could let me know if it stops at 5 and then I'll know for tomorrow that it'll likely be 6. Cheers!

3 & 5 are the ones most used by EC southbound and I've seen both 5 & 9 (which are basically next to each other) used as northbound. 6 is a terminus platform if im not mistaken

 

[ainsworth74]

Gentlemen (and ladies if there are any!) I would suggest trying to be there somewhat early as these test paths can be more of a guide than an accurate measure of when the train will appear. Even better would be to try and find someone with TRUST to follow it's progress for you.

 

[SkinnyDave]

Guys its on its way just saw it at 22/28 at Prestonpans. Got video of it but dont know how to upload from Iphone on here??

 

[scotsman]

Guys its on its way just saw it at 22/28 at Prestonpans. Got video of it but dont know how to upload from Iphone on here??

That would be 2228

22/28 is just an indication in the working timetable (WTT) that it ain't stopping

 

[Nym]

Guys its on its way just saw it at 22/28 at Prestonpans. Got video of it but dont know how to upload from Iphone on here??

Upload it to youtube or flikr and post a link.

 

[150222]

The 444 has a more spacious interior though doesn't it? Buffet Car shouldn't matter for a 2 hour journey, after all XC doesn't have them.

Yes but XC is a bit sh*t!

 

[SkinnyDave]

Upload it to youtube or flikr and post a link.

Eh I would but editing may be required as I managed to film it smegging upside down on the Iphone on my rush to end of platform
Ill sort it tomorrow.

Very Surreal to see the Pendolino on this line, say what you like about interior but its a great looking piece of machinery

 

[GNER 373]

Just left Newcastle, 23:51 pics to follow and vids will appear on my blog tomorrow! It was great!