pendolino carriages

[tadhatter]

I'm sure this subject has been done to death on here in the past but why is it that manufacturers (Alstom in this instance) and TOCs seem incapable of producing a product where the windows and seats actually match. Stand up Grand Central HST stock for a notable exception!

The problem with pendolino carriages is not only that the windows and seating configurations do not match up but that this is exacerbated by the narrower windows giving a feeling of claustrophobia. In addition the changes of actually getting a window seat that matches with the window is very ubnlikely due to the heavy usage of stock but what is more infuriating is that they are often occupied by someone asleep or watching a DVD on a laptop or other simillar manner but certainly not interested in lookng out of said window.

Furthermore pendolino carriages have very few plug sockets for charging laptos, phones and other deices. A real shortcoming given that most new rolling stock fit them as standard.

Rant over!

 

[gordonthemoron]

most pendolinos I use are largely empty so I can sit where I like, even usually have a choice of table seats. No problem

 

[Geezertronic]

On the 390s it is done to maximize seating. It has been done to death and you'd have to calculate how many seats would be lost in Std Class per set if the seats/tables lined up with the windows. A non/limited window seat is better than no seat at all.

 

[tbtc]

I'm sure this subject has been done to death on here in the past but why is it that manufacturers (Alstom in this instance) and TOCs seem incapable of producing a product where the windows and seats actually match. Stand up Grand Central HST stock for a notable exception!

Most HSTs don't have windows/ seats that fully line up - I'm struggling to think of the last new train that managed to get everything to line up.

what is more infuriating is that they are often occupied by someone asleep or watching a DVD on a laptop or other simillar manner but certainly not interested in lookng out of said window

I've seen Virgin and their trains blamed for many things on this Forum, but that's one that I don't think they can really be held responsible for

Unless they introduce a "Sleeping Coach"?

 

[DarloRich]

most pendolinos I use are largely empty so I can sit where I like, even usually have a choice of table seats. No problem

Christ - most of the Pendolinos I use are packed to the gunwales! I tend to get a spot lined up with a window by wedging myself in the vestibule!

 

[WatcherZero]

In part the issue is that seating arrangements and density are often decided late and at the Tocs discretion, rolling stock manufacturer on the other hand is working from the intial aim of maximum window space without compromising structural integrity.

 

[Rapidash]

You could also ask why a lot TOC's don't care that most of their seats are unavailable to anyone over 6ft tall without severe bruising of knees. Only ones on the Voyagers are the quad tables and the disabled seats, all of which tend to be reserved.

 

[gordonthemoron]

Christ - most of the Pendolinos I use are packed to the gunwales! I tend to get a spot lined up with a window by wedging myself in the vestibule!

you're going in the wrong direction, North from MKC in the morning and return in the evening generally has <20% loading, the 6:10 to Liverpool has a lot less than that

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Most HSTs don't have windows/ seats that fully line up - I'm struggling to think of the last new train that managed to get everything to line up.

If you mean a 100% line up, would that be the Pacer classes I wonder?

 

[gordonthemoron]

Virgin Voyager 221 coach D seems to align pretty well

 

[ainsworth74]

Most HSTs don't have windows/ seats that fully line up - I'm struggling to think of the last new train that managed to get everything to line up.

Mk2s (or at least the early ones) line up and 185s come very very close (hence why the have some odd shaped windows).

 

[gordonthemoron]

Weren't MK3 orginals pretty good too?

 

[455driver]

Mk2s (or at least the early ones) line up and 185s come very very close (hence why the have some odd shaped windows).

The mark 2F TSOs were the last ones built where the seats (and tables) lined up with the windows because these were the last ones built with different bodyshells from the 1st class coaches and so had 8 windows for 8 bays of seats whereas the 1st class ones had 7 windows for 7 bays of seats.

Conversions later in their lives did away with the tables and window alignment.
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Weren't MK3 orginals pretty good too?

not really as they had 8 windows and 9 bays of seats in standard.

 

[Mikey C]

The Networkers have seats that line up very well with the windows, indeed you can see that the mix of seating (airline and facing) has been arranged to help ensure this

 

[D365]

The Networkers have seats that line up very well with the windows, indeed you can see that the mix of seating (airline and facing) has been arranged to help ensure this

Then again, I think the Networkers line up very well overall (and I hope this doesn't change)

 

[TrainBoy98]

Southern 313s are pretty much perfectly aligned. All bays of 4 all lined up (bar a couple partially blocked by where the doors go).

 

[starrymarkb]

Class 158 as built was perfectly aligned. 159s are in Standard, but not in First.

 

[itsjamierawr]

Likewise the 185s seem to line up quite well, as do the 450s I've been on (and I think the 444s come to think of it)

 

[ash39]

On a slight aside, 185's have very tall windows which definitely adds to the sense of light and being able to see what's outside. I agree Pendo windows are too shallow but a lot of continental stock seems to be like this (Eurostar is similar from memory)

 

[Chrisgr31]

Southerns Class 171's also match up well. The window seats are great for going to sleep, rest your elbow on the window ledge, head against arm and off to sleep you go.

Cant sleep in aisle seats due to the nodding donkey syndrome and head falling into the aisle. The problem with the pendlinos is that on the window seats with no windows there's no room for your shoulders due to the inner sloping side of the unit.

Next week I am going to Birmingham, going on West Coast and coming back on the Chilterns Mainline in the hope its more comfortable stock.

 

[Crossover]

Try the 507/508's in Merseyside...may as well just board over them...there isn't a single bay which doesn't align with a sodding pillar

 

[Mikey C]

Then again, I think the Networkers line up very well overall (and I hope this doesn't change)

When the Networkers were designed, having seats lining up with windows properly was a design aim, I vaguely recall Chris Green mentioning this at the time. The previous generation (Peps and Mk 3 based EMUS) were pretty poor in this aspect.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

On a slight aside, 185's have very tall windows which definitely adds to the sense of light and being able to see what's outside. I agree Pendo windows are too shallow but a lot of continental stock seems to be like this (Eurostar is similar from memory)

The Pendos I've been on in Italy have massive windows, which (from memory) line up nicely with the seats...

It's (mainly) a problem caused by the British loading gauge rather than Pendos in general

 

[D365]

Southerns Class 171's also match up well. The window seats are great for going to sleep, rest your elbow on the window ledge, head against arm and off to sleep you go.

If the 170s are anything to go by, yes, I am rather impartial to the design. I've found it quite pleasing to put on some Depeche Mode, lean against the side and take a little nap out and in of Birmingham - 'Uselink' goes well imo

When the Networkers were designed, having seats lining up with windows properly was a design aim, I vaguely recall Chris Green mentioning this at the time. The previous generation (Peps and Mk 3 based EMUS) were pretty poor in this aspect.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The Pendos I've been on in Italy have massive windows, which (from memory) line up nicely with the seats...

It's (mainly) a problem caused by the British loading gauge rather than Pendos in general

Agreed, certainly isn't helped by the fact that the 390s are built to an even tighter 'British Tilt Gauge'.

 

[dk1]

Who wants a window? All you need is an iPad

 

[MCR247]

The Pendos I've been on in Italy have massive windows, which (from memory) line up nicely with the seats...

It's (mainly) a problem caused by the British loading gauge rather than Pendos in general

Its not to do with the loading gague. If you have been on a pendolino with bigger windows, that will be down to it being of a newer design (the "New Pendolino"). Italian pendolinos of a similar age have small windows

 

[tadhatter]

Who wants a window? All you need is an iPad

yes, and you probably sit in the only seat by a perfectly aligned window in the entire train gorping at said iPad instead of looking out of it!

 

[D365]

Who wants a window? All you need is an iPad

So many people in my Sixth Form have iPads/tablets and I still don't get the point of them over, say, laptops... Sometimes I can be found perusing the forums when the moment suits.

 

[Mikey C]

Who wants a window? All you need is an iPad

What you need is an App of the scenery outside, replicating exactly the towns and countryside you'd see if you could look out of the window properly in the first place

 

[D365]

What you need is an App of the scenery outside, replicating exactly the towns and countryside you'd like to see if you could look out of the window properly in the first place

There, changed it for you

 

[dk1]

yes, and you probably sit in the only seat by a perfectly aligned window in the entire train gorping at said iPad instead of looking out of it!

Always get a window seat as have BR boxes & get put in 1st by the lovely VT traincrew