Penalty fare

[appeal]

On April 27th my partner was issued a penalty fare, between Preston and lostock hall, one stop and as such the officer didn’t have time to print the stuff off before we got off, today in the post I’ve been told I’ve missed the appeal process and early payment all because he didn’t give us this stuff, surely this is grounds for appeal. I was told by Reddit this is the place to ask

 

[SuspectUsual]

Can you show us the letter you've received today please? Cover up the personal details

 

[furlong]

On April 27th my partner was issued a penalty fare, between Preston and lostock hall, one stop and as such the officer didn’t have time to print the stuff off before we got off, today in the post I’ve been told I’ve missed the appeal process and early payment all because he didn’t give us this stuff, surely this is grounds for appeal. I was told by Reddit this is the place to ask

You have a straightforward appeal then.

Under the regulations:

5(2) Where a collector charges a penalty fare to a person under paragraph (1), the collector must
provide that person with the following information in writing at the time the penalty fare is charged—
(a) a statement that the person is being charged a penalty fare;
(b) an explanation of why the person is being charged a penalty fare;
...
(g) a statement that the person has the right to appeal against the penalty fare and an
explanation of how the person can appeal;
...

If that didn't happen, then you simply appeal under regulation

16(3) The grounds on which an appeal under this regulation may be made are that—
(a) the penalty fare was not charged in accordance with the requirements of these Regulations;

and then according to

16(6) The relevant Appeal Panel must consider an appeal under this regulation in accordance with
the Appeal Procedure.
(7) If the relevant Appeal Panel, after considering an appeal under this regulation, concludes that
any ground specified in paragraph (3) applies, it must, subject to paragraph (10), allow the appeal.

your appeal must be accepted.

In simple terms, the officer should have cancelled the PF as it wasn't issued correctly.

Assuming there isn't more to this and you are telling the whole truth, this should be reported and I would expect a disciplinary hearing for misconduct as it has put the collector's employer into the embarrassing position of attempting to enforce a penalty that any competent collector would have known was unenforceable.

Regarding the time limit on appeals, they should accept a late appeal under 16(1)(b) as it would be unreasonable not to do so when the passenger was not informed of their right of appeal in breach of the regulations and the appeal is on that exact point.

16.—(1) A person (“the appellant”) charged a penalty fare under regulation 5(1) may appeal
against that penalty fare to the relevant Appeal Panel—
...
(b) within such longer period as the relevant Appeal Panel may allow.

 

[blimmo]

For next time (and anyone else reading this), if the inspector had cancelled the penalty fare and instead reported your partner for prosecution (with the name and address information your partner gave for the penalty fare) you would be in a much worse position.

 

[snail]

one stop and as such the officer didn’t have time to print the stuff off before we got off

Was anything said to that effect or did you just leave the train without waiting?

 

[gray1404]

The inspector could have got off the train and finished issuing it on the platform. They should not have continued issuing it in the absence of the passenger. It was therefore not issued in accordance with the regulations.

 

[ikcdab]

On April 27th my partner was issued a penalty fare, between Preston and lostock hall, one stop and as such the officer didn’t have time to print the stuff off before we got off, today in the post I’ve been told I’ve missed the appeal process and early payment all because he didn’t give us this stuff, surely this is grounds for appeal. I was told by Reddit this is the place to ask

Did you just walk away or did he tell you to go? If you just "got off' without waiting then you are still liable. If, however, he told you to go, then you would have an appeal.

 

[AlterEgo]

Did you just walk away or did he tell you to go? If you just "got off' without waiting then you are still liable. If, however, he told you to go, then you would have an appeal.

The passenger is not required to wait on a train at their destination to complete a penalty fare. That is just part of the risk of trying to issue one on a one stop, five minute journey.

Nonetheless there will be inevitable difficulties in bringing an "I didn't get handed the notice" as a defence, because anyone can make that unprovable assertion.

 

[gray1404]

The passenger is not required to wait on a train at their destination to complete a penalty fare. That is just part of the risk of trying to issue one on a one stop, five minute journey.

Nonetheless there will be inevitable difficulties in bringing an "I didn't get handed the notice" as a defence, because anyone can make that unprovable assertion.

It may be possible if we can look at the exact time that the notice was issued at. In other words if it was issued at a time when the train had departed Lostock Hall already

 

[ikcdab]

The passenger is not required to wait on a train at their destination to complete a penalty fare. That is just part of the risk of trying to issue one on a one stop, five minute journey.

Nonetheless there will be inevitable difficulties in bringing an "I didn't get handed the notice" as a defence, because anyone can make that unprovable assertion.

Im not sure that's right. In the same way that a passenger might refuse to accept a penalty fare notice or just tears it up and throws it on the floor. In both of those cases the penalty fare would be enforced and the difference between that and just walking away while the notice was being written is very slim.

 

[AlterEgo]

Im not sure that's right. In the same way that a passenger might refuse to accept a penalty fare notice or just tears it up and throws it on the floor. In both of those cases the penalty fare would be enforced and the difference between that and just walking away while the notice was being written is very slim.

It isn't the same. In one, the passenger refuses the notice, in the other, they reach their destination and leave the train. They aren't required to remain on it and be overcarried.

 

[snail]

It isn't the same. In one, the passenger refuses the notice, in the other, they reach their destination and leave the train. They aren't required to remain on it and be overcarried.

True, but we haven't been given all the detail here, in particular whether the notice was issued before the train left, as @gray1404 asks above, or whether the RPI did leave the train to issue it but the passenger walked away.