Penalty Fare

[gemma_uk3]

Hello,
Looking for advice on appealing a penalty fare.
This morning I ran for the train - as witnessed by the train guard. I was going one stop and if I don't have chance to pay beforehand which happens sometimes with my infant in tow I have no issues buying on board. Unfortunately you can't purchase on your phone as you enter a tunnel very soon after getting on the train. I also had a large pushchair so was unable to seek the train guard.
I explained all this but was still given a penalty fare.
I guess their argument would be I should have purchased beforehand? The reason I didn't was because I was running late hence the running for the train and if I missed it then I wouldn't have taken the journey as the next train is an hour later and I would have missed the playgroup I was attending.
I'll appeal but assuming it's fruitless?

 

[jfollows]

Unfortunately you committed a criminal offence by not buying a ticket before boarding, but a Penalty Fare is a better response than prosecuting you.

Please read and act on https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/please-read-before-posting-in-disputes-prosecutions.77759/ to provide the information requested if you want more analysis, for example if there is an error with the Penalty Fare allowing you to appeal it succesfully.

Without details, we’re in the dark.

 

[gemma_uk3]

Thank you for your response. I've attached a picture but don't believe they have made a mistake so guess I'll just have to accept it.

 

[gray1404]

Even if you purchase a ticket on your phone it is only valid if you do this before the train departs. Purchasing a ticket once you are on the train but before a ticket inspection does not mean you haven't committed an offence. I think it's important you are aware of this moving forward.

 

[Haywain]

You can appeal but the likelihood of success would appear to be slim unless there is a problem with signage at Colwall station.

 

[gemma_uk3]

I actually hadn't realised that thank you. I guess because I'd not had a problem buying on board on occasion I didn't realise the rules about buying before boarding. One of those lessons learnt the hard way unfortunately!

 

[jfollows]

I actually hadn't realised that thank you. I guess because I'd not had a problem buying on board on occasion I didn't realise the rules about buying before boarding. One of those lessons learnt the hard way unfortunately!

You’re not alone, the inconsistent handling means that one day you’ll be sold a ticket on board but the next day you’ll get a Penalty Fare or be reported for prosecution. If, on the first day, you were warned that you were committing an offence that would possibly help, but they generally don’t. At least now you know the truth!

 

[furlong]

Definitely appeal with the reasoning you've given here. They have the discretion to cancel the penalty so there is nothing to be lost in asking. If you can show them a regular history of purchasing the same ticket, that might help your argument. If you have any particular reason why you were late (e.g. a late bus or roadworks) mention that too. You get 3 appeals and we tend to find it's the final 3rd appeal that's more likely to consider factors such as these - but they are free to decide either way and so I'd suggest an emphasis on something exceptional or unexpected. But don't be tempted to lie and don't get your hopes up as we rarely see this type of appeal successful.

 

[Haywain]

I actually hadn't realised that thank you. I guess because I'd not had a problem buying on board on occasion I didn't realise the rules about buying before boarding. One of those lessons learnt the hard way unfortunately!

Guards often don't bother with the warning because they find when they do they are rewarded with abuse and foul language.

 

[WesternLancer]

Guards often don't bother with the warning because they find when they do they are rewarded with abuse and foul language.

I seem to recall it said on here the warning is printed in the back of tickets actually bought on board. But I don’t know if that’s true every time, and many people wouldn’t bother to look I suspect.

 

[saismee]

I seem to recall it said on here the warning is printed in the back of tickets actually bought on board. But I don’t know if that’s true every time, and many people wouldn’t bother to look I suspect.

It's not for PRT on STAR. It's printed as a second ticket which has the starting station as "Any [TOC] station" and the end station as "Penalty Warning".

 

[iamraymond]

I actually hadn't realised that thank you. I guess because I'd not had a problem buying on board on occasion I didn't realise the rules about buying before boarding. One of those lessons learnt the hard way unfortunately!

Yes I believe in the past (and maybe stil are) guards earned comission on ticket sales so would be in their best interest to sell you a ticket.

 

[saismee]

Yes I believe in the past (and maybe stil are) guards earned comission on ticket sales so would be in their best interest to sell you a ticket.

Many can't actually do anything beyond sell a ticket or issue an Unpaid Fare Notice. Revenue staff handle the Penalty Fare Notices and MG11s.

 

[WesternLancer]

It's not for PRT on STAR. It's printed as a second ticket which has the starting station as "Any [TOC] station" and the end station as "Penalty Warning".

thanks