Penalty Fare

[hello12345]

Hi,

First time poster, please be gentle. I have a question about how to deal with a penalty fare which I believe is unfair.

I paid £170 for a 8 flexi tickets from Greenhithe to London Terminals on 16th of Feb.

On 6th of March (still had 5/8 passes) on the way to London bridge my smartcard got checked and I got pulled from my seat for having no ticket.

I immediately disputed that, but the guy was not having it. Then I was asked about my personal details, date of birth, address etc. I refused to provide that and went back to my seat.

I received today a REMINDER penalty notice letter in the mail, which is dated on 28th of March. The penalty issue date is 6th of March. I skimmed through South Eastern website, it states I had 21 days to appeal, but I had not received anything until today.

How do I go about it? I don't want to pay this, I had a ticket. My blood boils even thinking about having to pay this. I have the money, but I do not think it is right to pay.

I would like to mention that all the gates opened for me that day. I have evidence of having purchased ticket in February, having remaining passes on the day plus whatever activity my smartcard shows.

Thank you.

 

[methecooldude]

Hi,

First time poster, please be gentle. I have a question about how to deal with a penalty fare which I believe is unfair.

I paid £170 for a 8 flexi tickets from Greenhithe to London Terminals on 16th of Feb.

On 6th of March (still had 5/8 passes) on the way to London bridge my smartcard got checked and I got pulled from my seat for having no ticket.

Did you tap your Smartcard in at Greenhithe or were the barriers open and you walked right though? Or did you use the side entrance

I immediately disputed that, but the guy was not having it. Then I was asked about my personal details, date of birth, address etc. I refused to provide that and went back to my seat.

You are required per the Railway Byelaws, 23.1, to provide your personal details

23. Name and address​

1. any person reasonably suspected by an authorised person of breaching or attempting to breach any of these byelaws shall give his name and address when asked by an authorised person.
2. the authorised person asking for details under Byelaw 23(1) shall state the nature of the breach of any of these byelaws in general terms at the time of the request.

(https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...ailway-byelaws#enforcement-and-interpretation)

I received today a REMINDER penalty notice letter in the mail, which is dated on 28th of March. The penalty issue date is 6th of March. I skimmed through South Eastern website, it states I had 21 days to appeal, but I had not received anything until today.

Can you upload a redacted copy of this letter? A Penalty Fare, as far as I know, cannot be issued without personal details and cannot be issued in retrospect.

How do I go about it? I don't want to pay this, I had a ticket. My blood boils even thinking about having to pay this. I have the money, but I do not think it is right to pay.

Hence for the first question, if you walked though the barriers without tapping your card, your flexi season ticket did not activate and you did not have a valid ticket.

I would like to mention that all the gates opened for me that day. I have evidence of having purchased ticket in February, having remaining passes on the day plus whatever activity my smartcard shows.

Ok, this might answer my question... however it is possible the inspector then activated your Flexi so you were good for the rest of the day

 

[hello12345]

The letter just says I owe £113 and I need to pay by 12-Apr-2025. Is there anything particular you want to see, perhaps I can just answer, otherwise I can redact and upload it. Interestingly it says "Station from" Stone Crossing, which is the next one after Greenhithe. There isn't even a gate there. The second part of your answer I do not follow, have I been sold invalid tickets? They took my money in February.

 

[WesternLancer]

The letter just says I owe £113 and I need to pay by 12-Apr-2025. Is there anything particular you want to see, perhaps I can just answer, otherwise I can redact and upload it. Interestingly it says "Station from" Stone Crossing, which is the next one after Greenhithe. There isn't even a gate there. The second part of your answer I do not follow, have I been sold invalid tickets? They took my money in February.

The letter in original format is needed really (with your personal details and case ref obscured) - people here will need to see the exact wording they are using to see what you are being accused of and what ability (if any) might exist to challenge it, and what the pros and cons of doing that might be so you can decide.

If you were given a Penalty Fare (the title of your thread) then I think you would have been given some paperwork or slip on the day by the Inspector. Did that happen? If it did not then there is a good chance you have perhaps not been given a Penalty Fare (the thing you have probably read about at stations on posters) - and the consequences of that are often worse - because potentially it's a pathway to prosecution. So experts here need to see this to establish the situation.

They presumably obtained your name and address from your smart card - but they would have asked in case there was some issue with the smart card - eg you had moved house and not updated the record, or someone else was using your smart card who was not entitled to do so - eg if you had dropped it and someone else had picked it up or stolen it.

 

[methecooldude]

The letter just says I owe £113 and I need to pay by 12-Apr-2025. Is there anything particular you want to see, perhaps I can just answer, otherwise I can redact and upload it. Interestingly it says "Station from" Stone Crossing, which is the next one after Greenhithe. There isn't even a gate there. The second part of your answer I do not follow, have I been sold invalid tickets? They took my money in February.

It would be helpful to see the whole letter.

Flexi season tickets are essentially a bulk purchase of a set of all day tickets to use between 2 stations (and all stations in-between). If you do not tap your smartcard on a barrier or a reader, then your ticket for that day is not activated and you do not have a valid ticket.