Penalty Fare - Valid Ticket Purchased

[user464346]

I am helping someone who has been issued with a PFN. Issue Reason: No ticket held. Amount looks correct - £100 plus value of anytime single. Grounds info is incorrect.
They are asking if they can pay the PFN first and appeal later?

Background: A valid Off-Peak Day Return was bought on the day prior to travel. They boarded at an unstaffed station without barriers. Upon reaching their destination, the e-ticket failed to work at the barriers. The phone was charged and operational: I believe the app and e-ticket, as well as the email of intended itinerary and order number, were shown. Bizarrely, the e-ticket lists the correct travel date and stations, but the 'valid until' date precedes the purchase date.

An appeal letter has been drafted, any guidance and advice would be appreciated.

 

[methecooldude]

I am helping someone who has been issued with a PFN. Issue Reason: No ticket held. Amount looks correct - £100 plus value of anytime single. Grounds info is incorrect.
They are asking if they can pay the PFN first and appeal later?

Background: A valid Off-Peak Day Return was bought on the day prior to travel. They boarded at an unstaffed station without barriers. Upon reaching their destination, the e-ticket failed to work at the barriers. The phone was charged and operational: I believe the app and e-ticket, as well as the email of intended itinerary and order number, were shown. Bizarrely, the e-ticket lists the correct travel date and stations, but the 'valid until' date precedes the purchase date.

An appeal letter has been drafted, any guidance and advice would be appreciated.

We would need to see PFN and preferably the ticket details/journey details in order to help. But to answer the question, yes, you can pay and then appeal, if you are worried about losing the discounted rate.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/please-read-before-posting-in-disputes-prosecutions.77759/ - Have a read, then provide the relevant info

 

[furlong]

Please give us all the details including where the ticket was purchased. Was it definitely an e-ticket not an m-ticket? (Some problems with m-ticket expiry are known.)
Was this on the outward or the return? Was there an off-peak single valid at the time? If so, the PF is based on that, not the anytime.

 

[user464346]

Ticket purchased from TPE: "Your eTickets will be available immediately in the 'My Tickets' section of the TransPennine Express app, and you should also receive a separate email containing your eTickets"

This was on the outward journey. There isn't an off-peak single on the route.

 

[gray1404]

Can you please upload a FULL copy of the penalty fare notice

A FULL copy of the ticket

and

A FULL copy of the booking confirmation email.

 

[Haywain]

Ticket purchased from TPE: "Your eTickets will be available immediately in the 'My Tickets' section of the TransPennine Express app, and you should also receive a separate email containing your eTickets"
View attachment 190453View attachment 190454
This was on the outward journey. There isn't an off-peak single on the route.

Aside from the Penalty Fare Notice, if the ticket was bought for travel on the 4th a complaint should be raised with the retailer. It is clearly their error that has caused this situation to arise.

 

[AdamWW]

Ticket purchased from TPE: "Your eTickets will be available immediately in the 'My Tickets' section of the TransPennine Express app, and you should also receive a separate email containing your eTickets"
View attachment 190453View attachment 190454
This was on the outward journey. There isn't an off-peak single on the route.

So in the grounds they make it clear there was a problem with the e-ticket not of the passenger's making and they issued a PF anyway?

 

[4COR]

So in the grounds they make it clear there was a problem with the e-ticket not of the passenger's making and they issued a PF anyway?

The PF has "bought ticket on train" in the reason text - if this is the case, then (regardless of the ticketing date issue), would this make valid grounds for the PF to be issued as no ticket was held on boarding?

 

[Haywain]

would this make valid grounds for the PF to be issued as no ticket was held on boarding?

No, not if the ticket was otherwise valid. That is an issue that seems to have been skirted round.

 

[user464346]

Ticket was bought before boarding.

 

[Grumpy Git]

The PF has "bought ticket on train" in the reason text - if this is the case, then (regardless of the ticketing date issue), would this make valid grounds for the PF to be issued as no ticket was held on boarding?

It actually says "bought ticket on train line app. ......."

 

[AlterEgo]

So in the grounds they make it clear there was a problem with the e-ticket not of the passenger's making and they issued a PF anyway?

Yes. Clear malpractice. This is nil fare and TIR territory, not a PF. A complaint should also be raised with Northern for their agent's attempt to extract a hundred extra pounds for what they already can see is a retailer issue. The sheer brass neck of it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Oct 2025 ==

The PF has "bought ticket on train" in the reason text - if this is the case, then (regardless of the ticketing date issue), would this make valid grounds for the PF to be issued as no ticket was held on boarding?

It doesn't say that. It says ticket bought on train line app.

 

[AdamWW]

The PF has "bought ticket on train" in the reason text - if this is the case, then (regardless of the ticketing date issue), would this make valid grounds for the PF to be issued as no ticket was held on boarding?

I think the reason is "bought ticket on train line app"

And in any case I think a PF should be issued for failing to present a valid ticket, not boarding without one.

 

[fandroid]

Let's wait until the OP has got hold of and posted the entire ticket and entire PFN. The ticket dates are smudged and a better image is needed. It would help to have a copy of the confirmation email too.

Background: A valid Off-Peak Day Return was bought on the day prior to travel. They boarded at an unstaffed station without barriers. Upon reaching their destination, the e-ticket failed to work at the barriers. The phone was charged and operational: I believe the app and e-ticket, as well as the email of intended itinerary and order number, were shown. Bizarrely, the e-ticket lists the correct travel date and stations, but the 'valid until' date precedes the purchase date

The situation seems to be bizarre so it's necessary to be able to scrutinise every detail in order to work out a solution.

 

[gray1404]

It will be interesting to hear back from the original poster. I am actually wondering if the passenger was traveling in accordance with the itinerary produced when the ticket was purchased using to see the confirmation email. i.e. they traveled on the exact train that they selected when booking.

The grounds information on the notice show how poorly trained Northern Revenue Protection staff are. This is the sort of situation where a ticket irregularity report could have been submitted for the train company to investigate at their end at no detriment to the passenger.

It is important the OP comes back with the requested information though so we can advise and an appeal is submitted within the time limit.

 

[AdamWW]

.The situation seems to be bizarre so it's necessary to be able to scrutinise every detail in order to work out a solution.

I am struggling however to think of any context in which what we have seen given as the grounds for the penalty are actually reasonable.

 

[fandroid]

I am struggling however to think of any context in which what we have seen given as the grounds for the penalty are actually reasonable.

Indeed, but it's always prudent to construct the best possible assembly of all the facts in order to get the appeals body to take notice.

 

[island]

We need to get more details including

Can you please upload a FULL copy of the penalty fare notice

A FULL copy of the ticket

and

A FULL copy of the booking confirmation email.

plus the time each of these things were issued.

We cannot provide useful help if we get partial answers, carefully cropped screenshots, and information drip drip dripped in over the course of half a dozen posts.