Penalty Fare - possible outcome

[Cosmo1996]

hello, I wonder if anyone could help me with some advice.

my friend happened to purchase a child ticket upon a journey. Realising this was a terrible mistake she was going to purchase an adult on the train as she has in the past when she’s not had time to get a ticket, but unfortunately officers wouldn’t allow this and issued a penalty notice.

just received the letter to respond to regarding penalty notice, on there is states about possible prison sentence of 3 months. This is a first time offence and has never had something like this happen before. She is more than happy to pay a fine but is worried about going to jail for this.

any advice is appreciate, thank you

edit: officers aware she had child ticket, they took this before issuing the penalty.

would they send someone to jail for a first offence??, never done something like this before, was willing there and then to pay fine or for a ticket.

 

[Haywain]

Was your friend issued a Penalty Fare or were her details taken and a letter has now been sent? And how old is she?

 

[Cosmo1996]

Was your friend issued a Penalty Fare or were her details taken and a letter has now been sent? And how old is she?

Details were taken, letter received and sent back today. 26

 

[AlterEgo]

Which train company is she dealing with?

 

[Cosmo1996]

Which train company is she dealing with?

Southern Rail

 

[Watershed]

They are being deliberately misleading by quoting a prison sentence of 3 months. The law only allows for a prison sentence to be imposed for a second or subsequent conviction - presumably, your friend has not been convicted for this offence before, so a prison sentence is legally impossible.

If they did have a previous conviction for this offence, the Sentencing Guidelines (which judges must broadly follow, otherwise a sentence can be appealed) suggest that even in the most serious circumstances (a category 1 offence - where there is higher culpability and greater harm) is only likely to warrant at most a low level community order (i.e. 40-80 hours of unpaid community service and/or a possible curfew for a few weeks). The only people who are imprisoned for this sort of offence are those with tens (if not hundreds) of convictions and who refuse to pay the fines they have been ordered to pay.

To be clear, there is every likelihood of a fine, or having to pay a large settlement to avoid Court. But prison is just not going to happen, so your friend doesn't need to worry about that.

 

[Haywain]

Details were taken, letter received and sent back today. 26

Right, so buying a child ticket wasn't an accident but a deliberate attempt to avoid paying the correct fare. The letter is probably asking for her side of the story and this provides an opportunity to ask if the train company will accept a payment to settle the matter without going to court. She should reply following the sort of formula provided in other threads by @Hadders:

You will receive a letter from the train company which will typically take a few weeks to arrive. It could be sooner but shouldn't take longer than six months. The letter will say that they have received a report, are considering prosecuting you and asking for your version of events. It is important that you engage with and reply to this letter. I would simply be honest and say that following the incident you checked your railcard and realised that it had expired. You might want to include the following in your reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter
- It might also help if you tell them that you have renewed your railcard since the incident happened

Make sure your reply is short and concise, don't give a sob story - they've heard it all before. Most train companies are usually prepared to offer an administrative settlement (commonly known as an out of court settlement) for people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. There is no guarantee of this and they could decide to prosecute you in the magistrates court if they wanted to.

 

[Cosmo1996]

They are being deliberately misleading by quoting a prison sentence of 3 months. The law only allows for a prison sentence to be imposed for a second or subsequent conviction - presumably, your friend has not been convicted for this offence before, so a prison sentence is legally impossible.

If they did have a previous conviction for this offence, the Sentencing Guidelines (which judges must broadly follow, otherwise a sentence can be appealed) suggest that even in the most serious circumstances (a category 1 offence - where there is higher culpability and greater harm) is only likely to warrant at most a low level community order (i.e. 40-80 hours of unpaid community service and/or a possible curfew for a few weeks). The only people who are imprisoned for this sort of offence are those with tens (if not hundreds) of convictions and who refuse to pay the fines they have been ordered to pay.

To be clear, there is every likelihood of a fine, or having to pay a large settlement to avoid Court. But prison is just not going to happen, so your friend doesn't need to worry about that.

Thank you very much, this really has put her mind at ease, has been inconsolable since this happened. Very scared about going to court and jail. This is a first time offence, never convicted of anything prior.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Aug 2023 ==

Right, so buying a child ticket wasn't an accident but a deliberate attempt to avoid paying the correct fare. The letter is probably asking for her side of the story and this provides an opportunity to ask if the train company will accept a payment to settle the matter without going to court. She should reply following the sort of formula provided in other threads by @Hadders:

Letter has already been sent back, explaining they’re very sorry, never done this before and is willing to pay a fine. It wasn’t an accident and was very stupid and they have learned from this for sure.

 

[Hadders]

GTR are one of the more pragmatic companies when it comes to dealing with these sort of things.

That said, the story really doesn’t add up to me. It sounds as though you were chancing it by buying a child rate discounted ticket with the hope that you could purchase an adult ticket onboard in the event of a ticket inspection.

Letter has already been sent back, explaining they’re very sorry, never done this before and is willing to pay a fine. It wasn’t an accident and was very stupid and they have learned from this for sure.

Be aware that the train company can research your online ticket purchasing history so they will find out if there is a history of purchasing child rate tickets.

 

[scrapy]

How old is your friend?

 

[Haywain]

How old is your friend?

Already answered in post #3, she's 26.

 

[scrapy]

Apologies, was going to suggest a 16-17 saver card for future if she was just over 15. She may want to look at a 26-30 Railcard for future use if she uses the train a fair bit, but should be aware of minimum fare rules if planning on using for commuting.

 

[island]

Thank you very much, this really has put her mind at ease, has been inconsolable since this happened. Very scared about going to court and jail. This is a first time offence, never convicted of anything prior.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Aug 2023 ==


Letter has already been sent back, explaining they’re very sorry, never done this before and is willing to pay a fine. It wasn’t an accident and was very stupid and they have learned from this for sure.

As others mention Southern (GTR) are generally willing to settle these matters out of court for first time offenders and you (because it's not really your "friend", is it) should expect to pay around £100 plus the full fare of the journey in question, with no credit for the child ticket. It is of course essential you buy the right ticket going forward as they do not look kindly on repeat offenders.

 

[Cosmo1996]

As others mention Southern (GTR) are generally willing to settle these matters out of court for first time offenders and you (because it's not really your "friend", is it) should expect to pay around £100 plus the full fare of the journey in question, with no credit for the child ticket. It is of course essential you buy the right ticket going forward as they do not look kindly on repeat offenders.

It actually genuinely was a friend that this has happened to… and this was a first time offence… she was strapped for cash and risked it stupidly, thought if questioned then she’d pay for it on train… illogical thinking yes.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Aug 2023 ==

GTR are one of the more pragmatic companies when it comes to dealing with these sort of things.

That said, the story really doesn’t add up to me. It sounds as though you were chancing it by buying a child rate discounted ticket with the hope that you could purchase an adult ticket onboard in the event of a ticket inspection.


Be aware that the train company can research your online ticket purchasing history so they will find out if there is a history of purchasing child rate tickets.

That was the idea… it was stupid but that’s what she decided to do… would purchase an adult if approached but didn’t realise she’d get immediate fine… just a silly decision. This wasn‘t purchased through the app, she doesn’t use it. I don’t think she’d say it was the first time she’d done this to me if it wasn’t. Thank you for advice on matter, it’s much appreciated