Penalty Fare Notice

[Ldeu77]

Hello everyone,

I am writing because yesterday I was stopped and asked to show my ticket, which I had paid for, along with my railcard. After reviewing it, the operator told me that I had selected the wrong railcard (16–17 Railcard) even though I actually have a 26–30 Railcard.

At the time, I apologised and explained that it must have been a mistake. The inspector issued me a Penalty Fare Notice and advised me to submit an appeal, send a copy of my correct railcard, and explain that I likely selected the wrong railcard by accident since the two options appear next to each other when booking.

When I got home, I started writing the appeal and also noticed that the inspector had recorded the wrong address, so I mentioned that in the appeal as well.

While checking my recent travel history, I realised that over the past few weeks I had booked 15 trips using the wrong railcard. After discovering this, I decided to pay the penalty fare, which I have now done.

However, since submitting the appeal and paying the penalty, I have become worried that the company might investigate further and discover those 15 trips. It was an honest mistake, and if they review my full travel history they will see that I have always paid for my tickets properly.

I wanted to ask if anyone has heard of cases where people were investigated further even after paying a Penalty Fare Notice.

I would appreciate any advice, as I am feeling quite worried about the situation.

Thank you for you help in advance

 

[AlterEgo]

We need to see all parts of the notice other than your name, as your only appeal will be on technical grounds and these parts of the Notice are critical.

GTR don't usually go fishing after a penalty fare notice, so concentrate on your appeal. It will certainly be declined for the reasons you gave - you claimed a bigger discount than you are entitled to and have done for some time.

 

[Ldeu77]

We need to see all parts of the notice other than your name, as your only appeal will be on technical grounds and these parts of the Notice are critical.

GTR don't usually go fishing after a penalty fare notice, so concentrate on your appeal. It will certainly be declined for the reasons you gave - you claimed a bigger discount than you are entitled to and have done for some time.

Hello,
Thank you for your Reply,
I got a southern train from Southwick to Shoreham by Sea witch is one stop train the difference for the ticket was 0.7£.
Do you need any other information from the journey ??

Thanks

 

[AlterEgo]

Hello,
Thank you for your Reply,
I got a southern train from Southwick to Shoreham by Sea witch is one stop train the difference for the ticket was 0.7£.
Do you need any other information from the journey ??

Thanks

Please upload the notice again with those areas legible so we can see the details, this is vital to us figuring out exactly what, if anything, is non compliant with the notice.

 

[Ldeu77]

Please upload the notice again with those areas legible so we can see the details, this is vital to us figuring out exactly what, if anything, is non compliant with the notice.

Okay, thank you for your reply.

My question is: once I pay the penalty fare, will the case be closed? Or, since there is an appeal in progress, will it remain open until the appeal is reviewed and possibly rejected?

If that is the case, I would prefer not to submit a second appeal. I am happy for the matter to be closed and hope that this will be the end of it.

 

[saismee]

Once paid the case is closed. You still have a right to appeal to be refunded the amount you have paid, provided that there is a problem with the penalty fare issued (you'll need to post it for us to check). You cannot be prosecuted for this case once paid and a pending appeal cannot re-open the case, so there's no risk of prosecution anymore.

The company may review your previous bookings and decide that they want money for these cases too, but they would need to prove it was  you who travelled in order to have any grounds for a prosecution.

 

[z444z]

The company may review your previous bookings and decide that they want money for these cases too, but they would need to prove it was  you who travelled in order to have any grounds for a prosecution.

If they do get in touch, do not respond, not even an acknowledgement, until you've come back here for advice on if/how to respond.

 

[blimmo]

You cannot be prosecuted for this case once paid and a pending appeal cannot re-open the case, so there's no risk of prosecution anymore.

I think it is actually possible for the ToC to cancel the PF after payment if they refund the payment (although it doesn't look like that really happens).

If the PF has been appealed and the appeal has been decided the PF cannot be cancelled.

 

[Ldeu77]

Once paid the case is closed. You still have a right to appeal to be refunded the amount you have paid, provided that there is a problem with the penalty fare issued (you'll need to post it for us to check). You cannot be prosecuted for this case once paid and a pending appeal cannot re-open the case, so there's no risk of prosecution anymore.

The company may review your previous bookings and decide that they want money for these cases too, but they would need to prove it was  you who travelled in order to have any grounds for a prosecution.

Thank you for your reply.

I understand that the penalty fare issued was correct, and I doubt that my appeal will be successful.

After reflecting on the situation, I realise that I shouldn’t have submitted the appeal without checking my account first. What will happen if my appeal is not accepted but I have already paid the fine? Can the case then be considered closed, or do I need to submit another appeal since I have already started the process?

Regarding the previous booking, I hope they will not investigate it. If they do contact me about it, I will come back here and ask for advice before replying to them. As this is the first time I have made this mistake, I hope they will not investigate any further.

 

[blimmo]

After reflecting on the situation, I realise that I shouldn’t have submitted the appeal without checking my account first. What will happen if my appeal is not accepted but I have already paid the fine? Can the case then be considered closed, or do I need to submit another appeal since I have already started the process?

Submitting the appeal is fine. If your appeal is accepted (unlikely) they will refund the money you paid. If it is rejected nothing will change. Regardless once you get the decision you can't be prosecuted (or at least you shouldn't be able to be) and since this is GTR it is unlikely anything more will come of this regardless now you have paid.

 

[saismee]

Thank you for your reply.

I understand that the penalty fare issued was correct, and I doubt that my appeal will be successful.

You haven't posted the PFN so we don't know if it is correct or not. Some RPIs make silly mistakes on them which can get the whole thing thrown out.

 

[z444z]

I understand that the penalty fare issued was correct, and I doubt that my appeal will be successful.

You don’t know that unless you have an in depth understanding of the legislation, which we do. If you’d like us to check it please post it!

After reflecting on the situation, I realise that I shouldn’t have submitted the appeal without checking my account first. What will happen if my appeal is not accepted but I have already paid the fine? Can the case then be considered closed

Yes.

or do I need to submit another appeal since I have already started the process?

No, there’s no obligation to continue appealing. If it’s paid and you don’t appeal further then the matter of the penalty fare will be closed.

Regarding the previous booking, I hope they will not investigate it. If they do contact me about it, I will come back here and ask for advice before replying to them.

Sounds good.