Penalty fare notice - card blocked by TfL

[MikeWh]

Hi all, just posting to update that I’ve now had a response from Penalty Services in relation to the PFN issued on 28 April, and I have been successful! Very pleased to have one of them dealt with at least.

It's been a couple of weeks now, have you had any further update, @TigerCap?

 

[TigerCap]

Hi @MikeWh , I actually received an email from Penalty Services this morning regarding 2nd round appeal for the 1st PFN issued on 14 April, and the appeal was successful - extract from the letter copied below:

I also understand it was believed by staff that the ticket produced for inspection was not valid for the
journey made.
As the ticket provided on appeal is valid for the journey recorded on the Penalty Fare Notice, I'm pleased to
advise that the Penalty Fare Notice has been cancelled and reduced to NIL.

Huge thanks to you and all the other forum members who were so helpful in advising me and unpicking this problem. Needless to say my default payment card and Apple express transit card are now the same!

 

[MikeWh]

That's great news. Did you contact TfL about getting the revenue charges refunded and unblocking the blocked card?

 

[Adam Williams]

TfL have responded to my FoIA:

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/apple_pay_express_transit_and_tf#incoming-3442398

• The RID doesn't work with Express Mode (as @MikeWh suggested, but good to have confirmed in writing)
• They have no idea how many people this could've affected, and don't have any way of working out how many appeals might've mentioned it
• It would appear that revenue staff have not been briefed about the limitation at all

Breathtaking levels of incompetence.

 

[TigerCap]

@Adam Williams That's very interesting. If the RID doesn't work with Apple Express Mode, could that mean that it will only ever acknowledge the default payment card on the phone, and if the two payment modes use two different cards (as in my case) then no matter how many times you present the Express Mode card the device will never be able to read it? I am 99% certain that I did present the card I was using for Express Mode, because I was conscious of having two cards in the digital wallet, but it kept on being denied.

I had wondered if the train companies receive any feedback on appeals from Penalty Services which might in turn inform their approach/practice going forward, but clearly not!

@MikeWh I haven't done so yet - been busy with half-term and work - but it is on my to-do list.

 

[Bletchleyite]

@Adam Williams That's very interesting. If the RID doesn't work with Apple Express Mode, could that mean that it will only ever acknowledge the default payment card on the phone, and if the two payment modes use two different cards (as in my case) then no matter how many times you present the Express Mode card the device will never be able to read it?

No. All it means is that the phone will choose a card based not on express transit mode but based on what it would choose if you presented it at a normal card terminal without picking one. If you do pick one it will present that.

It's also an issue if using express transit mode in "low battery" mode - they won't be able to inspect at all then.

This is quite something - incredibly poor! TfL are basically relying on people using their default card as the express transit card. Same as Metrolink.

 

[MikeWh]

could that mean that it will only ever acknowledge the default payment card on the phone, and if the two payment modes use two different cards (as in my case) then no matter how many times you present the Express Mode card the device will never be able to read it? I am 99% certain that I did present the card I was using for Express Mode, because I was conscious of having two cards in the digital wallet, but it kept on being denied.

If you open Apple Wallet and select the card used for Express Pay then it will read that card. This may have been why the inspection worked on the final occasion, but I'm not sure. I do want to thank you for taking the time to help us understand how this has all panned out. It will hopefully lead to greater understanding of the issue within the railway and may eventually lead to express mode working as advertised.

 

[TigerCap]

@Bletchleyite Thanks. It does seem incredibly short-sighted to assume that all customers will only ever use one card for all transactions, especially for travel where, as PP have already noted, expenses are often claimed back from employers or clients and may very well be kept separate for that purpose.

@MikeWh No problem - I am certainly telling everyone I know with an iPhone to check their payment set up!

 

[kijeta]

Should OP be due any compensation for their time and energy spent on this? It seems hardly fair that Penalty Services can just "get away with" wasting OP's time and potentially causing distress, especially as OP did absolutely nothing wrong in the first instance.

 

[Cdd89]

There is another very similar FoI from May 2025, to which TfL responded as follows:

Our revenue teams are aware that the customer must present the contactless card they used to touch in to start their journey. This is usually communicated during the inspection process and is a consistent message across all the different mobile platforms used to travel on our services.

As to the Power Reserve functionality/gap, TfL's CoCs seem quite broadly worded in their own favour:

If the contactless device you are using to travel runs out of battery (charge) or cannot be read for any reason, you may be charged a maximum fare or you may be given a penalty fare or you may be prosecuted.

This implies that the Power Reserve functionality is not an entitlement that can be relied upon. I suppose one could argue that a device using Express Transit with Power Reserve has not yet "run out of battery", but "cannot be read for any reason" does not preclude TfL having a technical issue (whether or not related to Express Transit support) and issuing a penalty fare; maybe this would be viewed as an unfair term.

 

[Adam Williams]

There is another very similar FoI from May 2025, to which TfL responded as follows:

Yes

"cannot be read for any reason" does not preclude TfL having a technical issue (whether or not related to Express Transit support) and issuing a penalty fare; maybe this would be viewed as an unfair term

It is clear to me that passengers should avoid relying on this, but I do not think it is unreasonable that if Express Transit support is advertised in a big press campaign, customers should be able to rely on it to work properly at all TfL card readers - including during revenue inspections. My view is that it probably is an unfair term.

It is my understanding that this is now being discussed internally at Apple, however. Clearly there is some reputational risk for them as well given this botched implementation.

 

[Blaine]

In my experiences, the revenue teams have no clue about this. No real issue when being inspected on the bus as it leads to a follow-up conversation, but when a customer with a different Express Travel / default Apple Pay card is inspected on the DLR, they will be charged an extra fare.