Penalty Fare Notice Appea

[S3V]

Hi all,

Just after a bit of advice after a bit of a small genuine error that resulted in me receiving a penalty fare notice, recently appealed but received a relatively boiler plate rejection.

So effectively I typicaly get the same train at least once or twice a week to my work office and buy a return. This route is LTV to ERD or Chester Road as typcially I'll grab an uber from either station but both stops cost the same it just gives me an extra stop I've paid for if I opt to get a bus to Erdington station instead.

Anyhow, my point is that I always grab a return, however last week on the 2nd July 2026, I bought my ticket on the trainline app, hopped on the train in the morning and headed to the office. What I didn't realise until my return journey when asked to present my ticket to a Ticket Enforcement Officer or Revenue Protection Agent (I honestly do not recall what title they held) was that as at some point my default selection for a return had changed to single and so when I went to swipe across for my digital return ticket it wasn't there.

I immediately realised my mistake, explained what had happened to the officer/agent thinking it would be understood, I could just buy the single ticket for the return journey and it be resolves within barely a minute. However when I explained my error the officer/agent asked to see my ticket, which I thought was just to confirm my story, but he then scanned that ticket and then began telling me if I bought a return now it wouldn't work and to not bother and began asking for my information to write me up the penalty fare notice. The whole thing left me a bit baffled I guess for what was a geuine mistake.

So I guess I'm just asking if there's much chance of the penalty being successfully appealed or any advice on how best to go about it? As whilst I do appreciate that the onus is on me to confirm my ticket is valid, the interaction unfortunately left me feeling that honesty placed me in a worse position than if I had just behaved dishonestly. Which is a disappointing experience for a regular paying customer.

Any advice is appreciated. Thanks.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Jul 2026 ==

Also apologies for my typo's and spelling mistakes. My autocorrect seems to be on holiday and I have become far too reliant on it.

 

[jfollows]

Please expand LTV and ERD. Forum rules, but many of us don’t have a comprehensive knowledge of these abbreviations.

 

[S3V]

Please expand LTV and ERD.

Lichfield Trent Valley to Erdington station.

 

[jfollows]

Thank you.
Your problem is that not having a valid ticket is a criminal offence, intent doesn’t come into it, a bit like exceeding the speed limit when driving - saying you didn’t mean to won’t get you off.
A Penalty Fare is the way of dealing with these rather than threatening a prosecution which is theoretically possible otherwise.
If you post the Penalty Fare, there may be a “technicality” which you could use in an appeal.

 

[S3V]

Thank you.
Your problem is that not having a valid ticket is a criminal offence, intent doesn’t come into it, a bit like exceeding the speed limit when driving - saying you didn’t mean to won’t get you off.
A Penalty Fare is the way of dealing with these rather than threatening a prosecution which is theoretically possible otherwise.
If you post the Penalty Fare, there may be a “technicality” which you could use in an appeal.

Thank you for the response,

That's understandable but I guess it feels a bit broad when you're a regularly paying customer and when the attempt to immediately rectify the mistake was somewhat deceptively rejected but I do appreciate your analogy and for taking the time to respond.

Unfortunately I can't see that there's really much on the penalty notice that might useable as a technicality but U've attached it. Just removed the instructor number and PF number.

Thanks again.

 

[furlong]

Where and when was this issued? Which train did you catch?
On train? Part way through a half-hour journey? By default it MUST be issued to the next station the train stopped at (Butlers Lane?) UNLESS you specifically requested otherwise. You may appeal on those grounds.

 

[S3V]

Where and when was this issued? Which train did you catch?
On train? Part way through a half-hour journey? By default it MUST be issued to the next station the train stopped at UNLESS you specifically requested otherwise. You may appeal on those grounds.

Thank you for the response. So this was on the return leg of my Lichfield to Erdington journey. I boarded the train at Chester Road (the station after Erdington) and it was issued around about Sutton Coldfield, I believe, so about two stops after on the train. I caught the 16:52 from Chester Road to Lichfield Trent Valley. So my single was showing Lichfield Trent Valley to Erdington.

Just to clarify I always buy a ticket to Erdington even if I get on and off at Chester Road more frequently, it's just because the tickets are the exact same price and it affords me the opportunity to get a bus from nearer my office to Erdington and board there instead if there's any issues. I did tell the Officer/Agent I'd come from Erdington rather than getting into those semantics because when they're the same cost it didn't seem worth overexplaining at the time because, again, I foolishly assumed it would be a quick and easy resolution of purchasing the appropriate return ticket.

 

[furlong]

The key question is whether or not you were given the option of the Penalty being issued to the next station. You need to work out from the timings that day which station that was. In principle you could have paid the penalty to the next station then left the train there, or been sold a separate ticket for the remaining part of the journey. The regulations make that the default option which can only be overridden if you specifically request to pay a higher Penalty Fare and the person issuing it agrees to do so.

 

[SECR 65]

I can't help with the technicalities of the notice, so I'll let others do that.

What I'll just mention is that a penalty fare is the routine way of dealing with minor ticketing issues as an alternative to prosecution or similar. At the end of the day, you didn't have a valid ticket, so were issued with a penalty fare. It may be that the inspector spoke to you in a rude or otherwise unfavourable way, but at the end of the day, protocol has been followed. It might not be what you want to hear, but it is the responsibility of the passenger to hold a valid ticket for their journey, and mistakes are not excused. Personally I feel that a fine of £50 is pretty reasonable to deal with someone without a valid ticket. It's very hard for them to know whether you meant to or not.

 

[S3V]

I can't help with the technicalities of the notice, so I'll let others do that.

What I'll just mention is that a penalty fare is the routine way of dealing with minor ticketing issues as an alternative to prosecution or similar. At the end of the day, you didn't have a valid ticket, so were issued with a penalty fare. It may be that the inspector spoke to you in a rude or otherwise unfavourable way, but at the end of the day, protocol has been followed. It might not be what you want to hear, but it is the responsibility of the passenger to hold a valid ticket for their journey, and mistakes are not excused. Personally I feel that a fine of £50 is pretty reasonable to deal with someone without a valid ticket. It's very hard for them to know whether you meant to or not.

Thank you for the response.
Aye, I do understand that and I appreciate it is hard for them to know whether an individual is genuine or not, and he wasn't impolite to be fair it was more that the situation felt unclear, I thought he wanted to see the ticket to confirm my mistake but he then scanned it and said that a return would no longer work so it felt as though a genuine attempt to remedy situation was removed or not even offered. Typically I would agree £50 is pretty reasonable but a ticket is normally only £6.40, it was just a genuine mistake on my part that I wasn't afforded an opportunity to resolve, I'd have thought my travel history and the fact I had a ticket going the one way might have afforded some opportunity but unfortunately that wasn't the case. So just a bit frustrating is all. Kicking myself after an already long day at work, haha.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Jul 2026 ==

The key question is whether or not you were given the option of the Penalty being issued to the next station. You need to work out from the timings that day which station that was. In principle you could have paid the penalty to the next station then left the train there, or been sold a separate ticket for the remaining part of the journey. The regulations make that the default option which can only be overridden if you specifically request to pay a higher Penalty Fare and the person issuing it agrees to do so.

Ah okay, thank you again. Nothing like that was offered or discussed. It was genuinely a case of me voicing my mistake, he then asked to see the ticket again, scanning it and telling me I needed to appeal and say I made a mistake when purchasing my ticket that morning and asked me where I'd come from and was going. No opportunity was afforded for a penalty to be issued to the next station. He advised they didn't sell tickets but I was pointing out I could just quickly have purchased one on my phone to rectify my error but he re-iterated a return would no longer work, I'd have to appeal and if I'd have bought one before he'd started issuing the notice it would have seemed like I was doing it just because I'd seen them, which I suppose there is an element of truth to that but only in that it prompted me to get my ticket up and then realise my mistake.

 

[SECR 65]

Thank you for the response.
Aye, I do understand that and I appreciate it is hard for them to know whether an individual is genuine or not, and he wasn't impolite to be fair it was more that the situation felt unclear, I thought he wanted to see the ticket to confirm my mistake but he then scanned it and said that a return would no longer work so it felt as though a genuine attempt to remedy situation was removed or not even offered. Typically I would agree £50 is pretty reasonable but a ticket is normally only £6.40, it was just a genuine mistake on my part that I wasn't afforded an opportunity to resolve, I'd have thought my travel history and the fact I had a ticket going the one way might have afforded some opportunity but unfortunately that wasn't the case. So just a bit frustrating is all. Kicking myself after an already long day at work, haha.

I completely get it's frustrating. Unfortunately many (I would say most) of the people we get on the forum - not a representative sample - are deliberate fare evaders. These people (I'm not saying are inherently 'bad') often need a wakeup call in the form of a fine. Almost everyone we see is remorseful and learn their lesson. Sadly some people get punnished for mistakes.

Ah okay, thank you again. Nothing like that was offered or discussed. It was genuinely a case of me voicing my mistake, he then asked to see the ticket again, scanning it and telling me I needed to appeal and say I made a mistake when purchasing my ticket that morning and asked me where I'd come from and was going. No opportunity was afforded for a penalty to be issued to the next station. He advised they didn't sell tickets but I was pointing out I could just quickly have purchased one on my phone to rectify my error but he re-iterated a return would no longer work, I'd have to appeal and if I'd have bought one before he'd started issuing the notice it would have seemed like I was doing it just because I'd seen them, which I suppose there is an element of truth to that but only in that it prompted me to get my ticket up and then realise my mistake.

I get the sense that the penalty fare was issued not in accordance with the regulations. If you still have an appeal left, then you can use it to try and get the penalty fare overturned, using the 'loophole' identified above. I would suggest you start drafting a response / appeal text. Forum members can assist with what to say and can review your draft. You basically need to tell them the penalty fare cannot be enforced because it was not issued to the next station on the trains journey and you were not offered the opportunity for it to be issued as so. There will be a number of the regulations which states this and you can say which regulation it is in breach of. I am really not the right person to advise about this but the good news is lots of members are.

 

[furlong]

The suggestion is to appeal on the grounds that it wasn't issued in accordance with the regulations, something like this:

For a second stage appeal quote Regulation 17 (2):

17(2) An appeal under this regulation must be made—
(a) in accordance with the Appeal Procedure; and
(b) on one or more of the grounds specified in regulation 16(3).

with

16(3) The grounds on which an appeal under this regulation may be made are that—
(a) the penalty fare was not charged in accordance with the requirements of these Regulations
...

and

(4) If the relevant Final Appeal Panel, after considering an appeal under this regulation, concludes that any ground specified in regulation 16(3) applies, it must, subject to paragraph (7), allow the appeal.

Specifically,

9(1A) In respect of England, where a penalty fare is charged under regulation 5(1) to a person
travelling by, present on, or leaving a train, the amount of the penalty fare is —
(a) £100 plus the price of the full single fare applicable,
...
(2A) In paragraph (1A), “the full single fare applicable” is the full single fare for the journey in question from the boarding station to the station that the penalty fare authorises the person to travel to under regulation 5(5A).
...
(3) In paragraph (2) and (2A), “the boarding station” means—
(a) the station at which the person boarded the train

5(5A) In respect of England, the penalty fare charged under paragraph (1) to a person travelling by or present on a train authorises a person to travel to—
(a) a station in England at which the train is due to make a scheduled call that they may specify, if the collector considers that this is reasonable in all the circumstances; or
(b) otherwise, the next station at which the train is due to make a scheduled call.

The OP did not request that the penalty fare be issued to an alternative station at which the train was due to make a scheduled call, therefore in line with 5(5A)(b) the full single fare applicable was £N, that being the fare to X, the next station at which the train was due to make a scheduled call.

As the Penalty Fare was issued for the incorrect, higher, sum of £S, the penalty fare was not charged in accordance with the requirements of the Regulations, and under 17(4) the appeals body is obliged to allow the appeal.