Penalty Fare - Not Showing Railcard

[MrBateman]

I got a penalty fare for not showing my railcard due to a dead phone (he asked on the station before I could get on so it wasn't a case of I could charge it) and I obviously had the ticket and railcard on app. I've appealed the fare but my dad seems to think because a condition of travel is being able to show a valid RC they'll still do me for £100 despite it.

Just wanted to know if other people have had this issue as the idea of it makes me quite cross. It would be poor form in my opinion to punish a customer who obviously had no fraudulent intentions, like I was out all day, my phone died. I figured I'd charge it on the train because I've never been asked on the station before. It's not like if they do me for this fare I can stop using the service (not until I get my driving license) so there's no ramifications to them being unforgiving with customers which sucks. Just venting really about something that might be alright... we'll see.

 

[signed]

You have the right to forget your Railcard once a year.

Your appeal, provided you joined a copy of it, will be successful and if it isn't come back here for advice

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Mar 2025 ==

8.6 and 8.7 of the National Rail Conditions of Travel

(https://assets.nationalrail.co.uk/e...3/National_Rail_Conditions_of_Travel_2024.pdf)

 

[WesternLancer]

I got a penalty fare for not showing my railcard due to a dead phone (he asked on the station before I could get on so it wasn't a case of I could charge it) and I obviously had the ticket and railcard on app. I've appealed the fare but my dad seems to think because a condition of travel is being able to show a valid RC they'll still do me for £100 despite it.

Just wanted to know if other people have had this issue as the idea of it makes me quite cross. It would be poor form in my opinion to punish a customer who obviously had no fraudulent intentions, like I was out all day, my phone died. I figured I'd charge it on the train because I've never been asked on the station before. It's not like if they do me for this fare I can stop using the service (not until I get my driving license) so there's no ramifications to them being unforgiving with customers which sucks. Just venting really about something that might be alright... we'll see.

This isn't a reason not to Appeal (using the Forgotten railcard policy as mentioned above) but it's worth knowing that from cases on here it's pretty common for people who can't show a valid Railcard to be reported for investigation rather than a Penalty Fare. That can be more time consuming and potentially costly to sort out so it's actually potentially worse.

They do this because the 'investigation' can then look into if this has been done on other occasions when in fact the person who can't show their Railcard turns out not to actually have one (either intentionally or unintentionally), and then they want to charge that passenger for previous travel using the Railcard discount.

But as I say, you should base your Appeal on the advice above about the forgotten railcard policy (or have you sent an Appeal already? - if you did not specifically state this policy you may need to go to Stage 2 Appeal).

Might be worth you posting your appeal wording here so that people can check it for you to ensure the wording is clear. Like other organisations the railway can often use it's own 'language' so you can get help with that here.

In general terms though you dad is correct - you do need to be able to show your Railcard (and indeed any tickets) promptly on request so you should always make sure you can do that on your phone and have sufficient charge or access to power when needed.

Head back here for the advice you need as things progress.

 

[transportphoto]

The penalty fare was issued before you started your journey, e.g. before boarding any train?

Unless you were in a compulsory ticket area, I doubt there’s validity in the PF at all. Which station were you at?

I’d bow to others knowledge and thoughts on this.

 

[Watershed]

Can you clarify the circumstances under which you were issued the Penalty Fare?

Had you already travelled anywhere? Which station did this happen at, and which operator issued the Penalty Fare?

Ideally we would need to see a copy of the Penalty Fare, with any personal details such as name/reference numbers redacted, to give the best advice.

 

[AlterEgo]

Just send a copy of the railcard to appeal this. It is likely not a valid PF for other reasons but you won’t care about those and neither should you.

 

[SuspectUsual]

I obviously had the ticket and railcard on app

Was the penalty fare definitely for no being able to show the railcard? You’ve said your ticket was also on the dead phone, so regardless of the railcard it sounds at face value like you’ve also failed to present a ticket??

who obviously had no fraudulent intentions, like I was out all day, my phone died

With respect, why is it obvious? Railway staff see stuff like this an awful lot, and a lot of people saying “my phone’s died” don’t have tickets. You did, but look at it from their point of view - what differentiates you from all the chancers they encounter?

 

[Hadders]

There's a couple of issues here:

1. The Railcard - it is a requirement to carry your railcard with you when on the train and present it for inspection when asked to do so. If you can't present your railcard then from a legal point of view your ticket is invalid and you can be dealt with as if you hold no ticket. It is the policy of the rail industry to allow passengers who forget, or who are unable to show their railcard when asked to do so, the opportunity to present it later and any penalty or additional fare paid will be refunded. This concession is allowed once a year. From what you've told us this applies to you and you should be able to make use of this concession.

2. The ticket - from what you've said your ticket was also held on your (dead) phone so presemably you were unable to show that as well. This is more of a problem because you commit a criminal offence if you cannot show, when asked, a valid ticket for you journey. The fact that you phone has died doesn't matter. Although this sounds harsh the reason for this is many people could distribute tickets amongst friends and just said their phone had died, meaning they could effectively travel without purchasing a ticket.

We really need to see the paperwork you were given at the time in order to give the best advice. If your just dealing with a failure to show an otherwise valid railcard then this should be simple to deal with. If it involves not being able to show a ticket then it will be more difficult.