Penalty Fare money

[Merseysider]

However, aren't LM Great Escape tickets only available at LM managed ticket offices?

Debateable

Last time, I got mine issued onboard, on a LM from Crewe-Euston for travel the next day. The guard did take the necessary voucher off me, presumably to hand it in to a ticket office later.

 

[yorkie]

But if people had the correct ticket then it wouldn't be a problem.

You say that, but I'm aware of several cases where people have had been issued Penalty Fares when they did have a 'correct' ticket.

Also some people have been issued Penalty Fares under circumstances which the legislation does not allow for.

True, Scotrail don't do pentalty fares, but to expect the average ticket holder to know the Byzantinian rules that apply to parts down south is near impossible.

I agree some of the rules are near impossible to be fully aware of, but Penalty Fares are not allowed to be issued under certain circumstances, such as those you describe.

However your concerns are valid because some poorly trained authorised collectors have been known to incorrectly issue people Penalty Fares in such circumstances, as there are insufficient safeguards in place to prevent this.

it is not revenue generating in profit terms.

In that case why do they still exist? (Rhetorical question; no need to answer!) If they were not generating revenue, surely the TOCs would have abolished them in recent years, rather than extend them?

This is not true in the case of PFs as the TOCs that participate in the PF scheme have to provide some sort of facility - even if it is a Pertis - or they cannot issue a PF from that station.

Some inspectors have still issued passengers Penalty Fares who started their journey at unstaffed stations.

If we must have PFs, I'd like more safeguards in place, and I'd like the rights and responsibilities of all parties to be made much clearer, along with exactly which circumstances can result in a PF and, crucially, which are not.

What the TOCs say and do are not always the same, e.g. GA's Penalty Fares Scheme stipulates queuing times are five minutes at peak times and three minutes at other times, and if those times are not met, authorised collectiors will be advised by pager to make sure that passengers are not charged a penalty fare. In practice, queues at some stations are often longer than this. Do they really ensure PFs are not charged? I don't think so.

The worst for injustices was probably FCC, a report in 2009 seemingly by ex-employees highlighted many malpractices. Some say the report could not be trusted but many incidents were reported on this forum, including revenue staff falsely claiming trains conveyed 1st class, falsely claiming Zonal tickets were not valid combinations, falsely claiming web discounted tickets required a non-existent railcard, and numerous other false claims against totally valid, but unvalued, customers.