I went to visit a friend and took the train for a literal 2 minute journey. When I booked it in a hurry with trainline, I had to choose the railcard and as I had one minute to go I accidentally added the wrong railcard to the journey. The difference is barely £1. I have a network railcard and tried to explain to the conductor who didn't care. She took my details down in a little notebook where I could clearly see someone else's details there. Other people would not be able to see my details. I suffer from anxiety and depression and have a good reason not to divulge my address and name. She was very rude for a 2 minute journey that costed £1.20.
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Penalty Fare for using the wrong Railcard
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I have a network railcard and I accidentally added a jobcentre railcard. It was genuinely done jn a hurry. I even showed her my very valid railcard
Welcome to the forum!
We really need to know some more details to be able to assist you.
Which stations were you travelling between
WHich train company are you dealing with?
What ticket did you purchase? What railcard did you apply?
What time did the train depart?
Were you given any paperwork by the inspector, if so can you post a redacted copy of it in this thread.
We really need to know some more details to be able to assist you.
Which stations were you travelling between
WHich train company are you dealing with?
What ticket did you purchase? What railcard did you apply?
What time did the train depart?
Were you given any paperwork by the inspector, if so can you post a redacted copy of it in this thread.
I was travelling between Reading and Reading West with Great Western railway. I purchased a single ticket. I applied a jobcentre railcard from the drop down. Departed at 19:05 arrived in Reading west at 19:07. I had no paperwork given
What time was your ticket purchased?
19:01
Thanks for confirming. You'll be dealing with GWR.
Job Centre Plus Railcards give a larger discount than Network Railcards and they are often used by people as a way of trying to pay a cheaper fare. I'm not accusing you of doing this but merely pointing out why the inspector will have done what they did. Unfortunately however unintentional it was, your ticket was not valid.
What happens next is that GWR will write to you saying that they have received a report and asking for your version of events before they decide how to proceed. They will normally offer an out of court settlement to people who co-operate with their investigation and who haven't come to their attention before. Expect a settlement to have to pay the full cost of the journey at the full Anytime rate plus an admin fee, typically £150. GWR will also check your online ticket purchasing history and if this shows you have applied a Job Centre Plus Railcard on previous journeys they will factor the cost of these journeys into the settlement fee.
When it arrives, post a copy of GWR's letter in this thread along with your draft reply and forum members will proof read it for you.
As for the behaviour of the member of staff I would encourage you to make a complaint but I would wait until your case is concluded.
Job Centre Plus Railcards give a larger discount than Network Railcards and they are often used by people as a way of trying to pay a cheaper fare. I'm not accusing you of doing this but merely pointing out why the inspector will have done what they did. Unfortunately however unintentional it was, your ticket was not valid.
What happens next is that GWR will write to you saying that they have received a report and asking for your version of events before they decide how to proceed. They will normally offer an out of court settlement to people who co-operate with their investigation and who haven't come to their attention before. Expect a settlement to have to pay the full cost of the journey at the full Anytime rate plus an admin fee, typically £150. GWR will also check your online ticket purchasing history and if this shows you have applied a Job Centre Plus Railcard on previous journeys they will factor the cost of these journeys into the settlement fee.
When it arrives, post a copy of GWR's letter in this thread along with your draft reply and forum members will proof read it for you.
As for the behaviour of the member of staff I would encourage you to make a complaint but I would wait until your case is concluded.
So it was scanned at Reading on the barriers? GWR may suspect you of short ticketing; that’s the reason they barricade Reading West sometimes. They’ll definitely be checking the ticket scans and may write to you separately.
For a £2 ticket? That's extremely disproportionate. Also me having depression and anxiety means that I am unable to function as normal. I don't think this is right. I will appeal.
My ticket wasn't scanned at reading west. The gate was opened. This makes no sense at all. I think this is just instilling more fear for no reason. It was an honest mistake and barely a £1 difference. They can take me to court all they want with the privacy concern I witnessed I'm more than happy to be taken to court and see what the judge thinks
Was the journey on a weekday or at the weekend? A Network Railcard has a minimum discounted fare of £13 on week days so there would be no discount available on a journey between Reading and Reading West.
I don't know which ticketing site you used but if it was Trainline then Network Railcard and Job Centre Plus Railcards are in different parts of the railcard drop down list, so how did you accidentally select it? If GWR look at your ticketing account will they find other tickets purchased with a Job Centre Plus discount applied?
There is no right of appeal as such. Based on what you have told us there are three possible outcomes to this:
1. GWR prosecute you in the Magistrates Court. This is unlikley if you co-operate with them
2. GWR offer you an out of court settlement. You pay them some money and in return they don't prosecute you
3. They take no further action. My view is this is unlikely
If the case does end up in court then all GWR has to demonstrate to the Magistrates is that you didn't have a valid ticket. However harsh it sounds, you didn't have a valid ticket.
Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Wait for the letter to come from GWR.
I am sorry to hear about your depression and anxiety. The thing that GWR will focus on is whether this impacted your ability to select the correct railcard.
I don't know which ticketing site you used but if it was Trainline then Network Railcard and Job Centre Plus Railcards are in different parts of the railcard drop down list, so how did you accidentally select it? If GWR look at your ticketing account will they find other tickets purchased with a Job Centre Plus discount applied?
There is no right of appeal as such. Based on what you have told us there are three possible outcomes to this:
1. GWR prosecute you in the Magistrates Court. This is unlikley if you co-operate with them
2. GWR offer you an out of court settlement. You pay them some money and in return they don't prosecute you
3. They take no further action. My view is this is unlikely
If the case does end up in court then all GWR has to demonstrate to the Magistrates is that you didn't have a valid ticket. However harsh it sounds, you didn't have a valid ticket.
Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Wait for the letter to come from GWR.
No i have never done rhis before. It was literally a mistake of choosing something quick from a dropdown menu. There is a right to appeal. And I will do just that. Its literally on their website. This is really not well informed I should have just done my own investigation. Yes my depression does impact my abilities. I take heavy medication and have brain fog due to it. I am on the highest doses of medication for depression and anxiety. And I have the prescription from my GP which I'm happy to show in court together with the side effects. Nevermind. This was a complete waste of time.
WesternLancer
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There is no ability to appeal in these circumstances. The option instead is to go to court
In court the magistrate would have no alternative to agree you were travelling without a valid ticket. Unless you can show you had a valid job seekers railcard which you don’t have.
You would have to pay a court fine plus other charges and have a criminal record for what is a low level criminal offence in the great scheme of things.
You should download and read GWRs revenue protection policy document from their website.
I would think carefully before going to court.
A judge would not be involved. It would be magistrates court.
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Please show where on their website it says you can appeal.
I suspect that relates to Penalty Fares ( £50 if paid promptly)
Did you receive a Penalty Fare?
Attachments
You have no grounds to appeal unless the notice was improperly issued. If you upload a copy of the notice with your details redacted, we can see if it has been properly issued or not.
WesternLancer
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Thanks. So were you issued with an unpaid fare notice or a penalty fare?
Because that screen shot relates to those things only.
Because that screen shot relates to those things only.
There is a right to appeal a Penalty Fare. You haven't been given a Penalty Fare or an unpaid fares notice.
Your details have been taken for further investigation. Page 11 and 12 of the GWR Revenue Protection Policy.
I was told I will
I wasn't interviewed. She just said I will receive a fine and could appeal it
peterblue
Member
Were you actually travelling from Reading West to Reading? Or from another station?
Did you divulge your name and address when requested? - I understand you mention you have privacy concerns but it is a legal requirement to do so in this situation.
Did you divulge your name and address when requested? - I understand you mention you have privacy concerns but it is a legal requirement to do so in this situation.
I was travelling from Reading to Reading west
WesternLancer
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You ca not be issued a penalty fare afterwards
Only the court can issue a fine after a guilty verdict.
You have misunderstood what you were told or it was not explained clearly to you by the member of staff.
You are being told here what will happen now. If you don’t want to believe this that’s your choice.
It’s set out clearly in their revenue protection document.
Be aware they will likely check your train line account to check you haven’t made the mistake of selecting the wrong railcard on other occasions too. That is why they have reported you for investigation and not given you a Penalty Fares on the train.
SuspectUsual
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We see a lot of posts that include reference to the wrong railcard being selected by people booking using Trainline, and from what we’re told Trainline “remembers” the railcard selected from the previous transaction. (Other forum members might confirm this)
You say you chose the wrong one in a hurry. Was this your first purchase using Trainline?
1. I never said I used trainline. 2. On these apps it doesn't always remember. 3. I never said I have the app and I'm a frequent traveller. 4. It seems like everyone is making a big fuss out of this for a literal 2 minute journey that barely even costed £2. It's OK. I'll get things sorted. Thank everyone for your help.
WesternLancer
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All you can do now is wait to see what they send you in the post.
SuspectUsual
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I literally quoted your first post, which says you did
It’s in your opening post.
GWR will audit your ticket purchases with a view to seeing how often you have claimed the discount before. From what you’re saying you haven’t been issued with a penalty fare but rather reported for prosecution.
This is all very disproportionate. But ok. I will see what happens. Please stop replying to this thread
SuspectUsual
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I appreciate you haven’t got the answers you might have been hoping for, but people here try to help by looking at the circumstances from both yours and the train company’s perspectives. Some of the questions we ask are maybe difficult, but far better to hear them from us than GWR
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It’s a shame you have come here for some pragmatic advice which is freely given but do not seem to either appreciate it or understand your own situation.
Do not let this get to court; it’s not in your interests! You are undoubtedly guilty of at least a Bylaw offence and you’ll be fined, receive a criminal record, have to pay the fare avoided, a court surcharge, and the prosecution costs. It’s bad news all round.
If you want to avoid that then people here can help advise you. If you don’t want the advice of the only specialist fare evasion forum - where posters know the law and how the train companies work - because you don’t like the answers, then that’s up to you.
Do not let this get to court; it’s not in your interests! You are undoubtedly guilty of at least a Bylaw offence and you’ll be fined, receive a criminal record, have to pay the fare avoided, a court surcharge, and the prosecution costs. It’s bad news all round.
If you want to avoid that then people here can help advise you. If you don’t want the advice of the only specialist fare evasion forum - where posters know the law and how the train companies work - because you don’t like the answers, then that’s up to you.
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