Penalty fare for purchasing after departure

[trai n]

Hi all,

I would appreciate some advice on whether it's worth appealing a penalty fare.

Attached are my penalty notice and purchased ticket.

I boarded at Stourbridge Junction to get to Birmingham (Snow Hill/Moor St), I was running late and only made it to the station as the train was pulling in. The train was scheduled at 8:50. I started purchasing my ticket while getting (running) to the train, but my phone was being slow. I found my seat and finished buying the ticket. Straight after the train pulls out a ticket officer comes to check tickets and I presented my valid ticket to Birmingham and my railcard. He asked me why I had only just purchased my ticket. I told him I just got on the train and what happened. He wasn't happy and gave me a penalty fare. As you can see, the time stamp on my ticket expense reciept shows 8:51, and the penalty fare shows 8:54. I somewhat understand the reason for the purchase after departure rule to stop people from just buying tickets when they see a ticket officer, but I was going to buy a ticket to begin with and I think that's clear from the time of purchase.

I didn't have time to stop at the ticket office/machine as I would have missed the train. Does this count as purchasing my "ticket at the earliest opportunity" (https://www.westmidlandsrailway.co.uk/tickets-discounts/penalty-fares).

From what I've read, the appeal service doesn't really care about context and running late isn't much of an excuse. However, I wanted to know if it's worthwhile appealing because I presented a valid ticket and it feels a bit excessive. I would really appreciate any of your advice on what to put in an appeal.

Happy to provide any other details/information! Thanks for your time

 

[yorkie]

If the purchase was completed before the train doors closed, I'd argue you have a case - on moral/common sense grounds, if nothing else (technically you have to buy before boarding)

Also, from a technical perspective, a Penalty Fare could be considered to be invalid/not appropriate if you were able to show a ticket at the time the inspector approached. However, if the doors had already closed by the time the transaction was completed, then unfortunately there isn't really any argument that you broke railway Byelaws, so I am not sure if this is a good argument to be making.

A Penalty Fare is a higher than normal fare charged when a customer makes a mistake under certain circumstances and is not a fine, and anyone being charged such a fare isn't being accused of an offence.

It could be argued that an inspector should either accept your ticket, or take your details for prosecution, but shouldn't actually charge a Penalty Fare. Whether this is an argument you want to go down, I'm not so sure, as they could cancel the PF and instead prosecute you for a strict liability Byelaw offence of boarding a train without already holding a ticket.

The rail industry isn't like any other; train companies such as West Midlands Trains don't really value your custom and are keen to catch people out. It can be quite shocking to people when they have experiences such as this, but to those of us who are regulars on this forum, it is not surprising and entirely consistent with the behaviour of many/some revenue staff at companies such as WMT.

 

[AlterEgo]

I didn't have time to stop at the ticket office/machine as I would have missed the train. Does this count as purchasing my "ticket at the earliest opportunity"

No. It is an offence to board having passed an opportunity to pay; you can either be prosecuted for this, or the offence disposed of by way of Penalty Fare, but they can only do the latter if you did not present a valid ticket on request.

(https://www.westmidlandsrailway.co.uk/tickets-discounts/penalty-fares).

From what I've read, the appeal service doesn't really care about context and running late isn't much of an excuse. However, I wanted to know if it's worthwhile appealing because I presented a valid ticket

You did present a valid ticket. You can appeal on that basis, but the company are very aware of people purchasing after departure on that route and you may raise your profile unnecessarily if you appeal on this basis. Is this something you do often? (they can tell by scan data). Do your tickets cover your full journey or do you short fare? They can pull your entire purchase history, and they do this regularly.

 

[furlong]

4.—(1) A person travelling by, present on, or leaving a train must, if required to do so by or on behalf of an operator, produce a valid travel ticket.

Which you say you did. (Buying after boarding doesn't make the ticket invalid of course - same as if staff on the train had sold it to you.)

5.—(1) Subject to regulations 6, 7 and 10, if a person fails to produce a platform ticket or a valid travel ticket in accordance with regulation 4, a collector may charge that person a penalty fare.

You didn't fail to produce one, so they can't charge one (you tell us).

If you'd genuinely have missed the train stopping to get a ticket - and you bought one online anyway - it seems unlikely they'd be able to prove you intended not to pay at any moment in time.
However they do prosecute on the basis of not being in possession of a valid ticket prior to boarding when the station had physical facilities available (a byelaw offence).
After choosing to dispose of the matter by way of a Penalty Fare though, prosecution is normally only done after the PF is left unpaid.

So unless you've some reason to avoid drawing attention to yourself, it would seem worth an appeal, citing "compelling reasons" in terms of otherwise missing the train and anyway purchasing it immediately, perhaps supplementing that with a record of regular purchases prior to boarding assuming you have that, and then stating that it wasn't issued in accordance with the regulations anyway as quoted above.

"Purchased after departure" on the notice is the evidence that proves your case - it's acknowledging you showed a valid ticket and therefore 5(1) can't be applied.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Aug 2025 ==

There is a further problem demonstrating the absurdity of this notice, namely that the PF should have been issued to the next stopping point of the train and no further. There is a provision whereby the passenger can ask the inspector to consider issuing the notice to a further station, but why on earth would anyone who is already in possession of a valid ticket covering their complete intended journey choose to ask the inspector to pay a second time for that second portion of the journey as part of their penalty? You have been penalised twice. Once with the £50 / £100 penalty amount, and secondly, even on the inspector's own terms, by being required to pay the fare a second time over from Cradley Heath to Snow Hill!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Aug 2025 ==

Also read this thread:

Penalty fare for purchasing ticket 15-30 seconds after departure

The stations* where you actually started & finished your journey: Apsley to West Brompton The stations* where you changed trains (if applicable); Watford Junction If you presented a ticket(s), the information* stated under "Ticket type", "From", "To", "Route", and any other relevant details...

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