Penalty fare for failure to produce a railcard.

[matt603]

I am hoping for some advice on potentially re appealing a penalty fare notice.
I am not a regular train user but needed to travel from Fareham to London Waterloo. I purchased 2 singles online using a HM forces railcard. I renewed my railcard 3 days prior to travel so that it was in date on the day of travel.
unfortunately in the morning rush I left the railcard at home, and as is such luck was asked to produce the railcard by a revenue protection officer. The officer was polite and understanding and explained that she needed to issue a penalty notice, but to appeal immediately with the proof of a valid railcard and the appeal would be accepted.
I have just received a appeal rejection letter with the following explanation.
"As a valid Railcard was unavailable for inspection at the time of travel, and there is no evidence to support
the discount having been applied erroneously by staff, I'm afraid it has been concluded that the Penalty
Fare Notice should stand."

Should I re appeal or is this ultimately futile, my basis for a re appeal would be this line in the letter being incorrect.
"I understand the Railcard required to validate the discount applied to the ticket produced for inspection was
found to be out of date."

thoughts and advice greatly appreciated

 

[John R]

I’m not sure I understand. You produced on appeal a railcard which was in date and valid, but it has been rejected because they say it wasn’t valid? Surely you just go back and set out the dates clearly.

 

[matt603]

The appeal was rejected on the basis that I didn't produce the railcard on the day of inspection. Which is correct.

My question is would a re appeal be worth it? There is no new evidence other than countering the statement that I produced an out of date railcard. But in doing so I essentially back up the reason for the rejection as I did not have a valid railcard on the day of inspection.

 

[John R]

OK, having reviewed the National Rail Conditions of Travel it seems you have to pay the penalty fare (maybe you did at the time), and then ask the train company customer services for a refund.

https://assets.nationalrail.co.uk/e8xgegruud3g/77fuBWp62YPSrGwBP1mNQX/5f912e6484a2dc7efbad3b4ed0c9b383/National_Rail_Conditions_of_Travel_2024.pdf

8.5 If you are travelling with a Railcard discounted Ticket and are unable to present the Railcard when asked by the staff or authorised agents of a Train Company, you will be treated as having joined a train without a valid Ticket and Conditions 9.1 – 9.5 will apply.

8.6 However, if you were unable to present the Railcard because you had forgotten to carry it on that particular journey or mislaid it, the Train Company concerned will refund any fare or Penalty Fare paid in accordance with Condition 10.

8.7 In order to claim such a refund, you will need to contact the customer service department of the Train Company that charged you the additional fare or Penalty Fare, providing the full details of your Railcard, together with the additional Tickets you have purchased or any Penalty Fares notices. A maximum of one such claim will be considered in any 12-month period.

 

[matt603]

OK, having reviewed the National Rail Conditions of Travel it seems you have to pay the penalty fare (maybe you did at the time), and then ask the train company customer services for a refund.

https://assets.nationalrail.co.uk/e8xgegruud3g/77fuBWp62YPSrGwBP1mNQX/5f912e6484a2dc7efbad3b4ed0c9b383/National_Rail_Conditions_of_Travel_2024.pdf

8.5 If you are travelling with a Railcard discounted Ticket and are unable to present the Railcard when asked by the staff or authorised agents of a Train Company, you will be treated as having joined a train without a valid Ticket and Conditions 9.1 – 9.5 will apply.

8.6 However, if you were unable to present the Railcard because you had forgotten to carry it on that particular journey or mislaid it, the Train Company concerned will refund any fare or Penalty Fare paid in accordance with Condition 10.

8.7 In order to claim such a refund, you will need to contact the customer service department of the Train Company that charged you the additional fare or Penalty Fare, providing the full details of your Railcard, together with the additional Tickets you have purchased or any Penalty Fares notices. A maximum of one such claim will be considered in any 12-month period.

That's brilliant thank you. I will look into this now.

 

[furlong]

I'd appeal again with a copy of the railcard pointing out it was in date and so their reasons were wrong, but the documented process is to pay the penalty fare then seek a refund from the train company's customer services in line with NRCoT. John R has just said the same thing.

 

[Kite159]

I wonder if it's simply a case of the person reviewing the penalty fare has got confused with the HM Railcard being different to all the other cards in being valid 12 months from the date it is stamped, rather than the date being the expiry date. So seeing the date stamp of DD MM 2024 they think it's expired, rather than being valid for 12 months from the date.

 

[AlterEgo]

I wonder if it's simply a case of the person reviewing the penalty fare has got confused with the HM Railcard being different to all the other cards in being valid 12 months from the date it is stamped, rather than the date being the expiry date. So seeing the date stamp of DD MM 2024 they think it's expired, rather than being valid for 12 months from the date.

I also wondered this.

 

[Gloster]

Just a possibility. If I understand correctly, once a year you are allowed to forget your railcard and to have the penalty waived if you can prove later that you had a valid railcard at the time; I presume that this also applies to the Forces Railcard. Have you forgotten your railcard and later had the penalty waived in the last year?

 

[Haywain]

Just a possibility. If I understand correctly, once a year you are allowed to forget your railcard and to have the penalty waived if you can prove later that you had a valid railcard at the time; I presume that this also applies to the Forces Railcard. Have you forgotten your railcard and later had the penalty waived in the last year?

But that's not the reason given for rejection of the appeal, so would not seem to be relevant.