Penalty fare due to railcard app issue

[Watton]

My daughter got a phone upgrade at Christmas, After transferring her railcard app across, it was working on the first day she travelled into college in January. On the second day it wouldn't display her railcard and her details were taken at the barrier. She was told that she would be contacted in around 2 weeks and given an opportunity to show that she had the railcard. After 3 months of silence we have now received a letter from the prosecutions demanding £50.60.

She was travelling from Watton At Stone to Welwyn Garden City and has a 16-17 Saver Railcard.

I'm half inclined to pay the penalty, as the path of least resistance, but I feel that she should have been given the opportunity to show that she had the railcard.

Is it worthwhile arguing that they haven't given her the opportunity to show that she had the correct railcard?

 

[SECR 65]

I believe you are allowed one forgotten railcard per year so may not have to pay if you can send evidence of the railcard. I would suggest having a read through other threads of a similar nature to help understand the likely process. Other forum members will be along to advise shortly.

 

[jfollows]

See https://assets.nationalrail.co.uk/e...e/National_Rail_Conditions_of_Travel_2026.pdf

However, if you were unable to present the Railcard because you had forgotten to carry it on that particular journey or were unable to display it on an electronic device, the Train Company concerned will refund any fare or Penalty Fare paid in accordance with Condition 10.

In order to claim such a refund, you will need to contact the customer service department of the Train Company that charged you the additional fare or Penalty Fare, providing the full details of your Railcard, together with the additional Tickets you have purchased or any Penalty Fares notices. A maximum of one such claim will be considered in any 12-month period.

 

[Watton]

OK, I have to pay it and claim a refund. That's mildly irritating but not a big deal.
Thank you.

 

[John R]

OK, I have to pay it and claim a refund. That's mildly irritating but not a big deal.
Thank you.

I would reply with evidence that she did have a railcard, explain the problem she had with a new phone, and ask that she can be let off in line with the Forgotten Railcard policy.

 

[AlterEgo]

OK, I have to pay it and claim a refund. That's mildly irritating but not a big deal.
Thank you.

No. Don't pay it. What you've been sent isn't a penalty fare but a report for prosecution. You should reply to it immediately with proof of the railcard.

 

[WesternLancer]

My daughter got a phone upgrade at Christmas, After transferring her railcard app across, it was working on the first day she travelled into college in January. On the second day it wouldn't display her railcard and her details were taken at the barrier. She was told that she would be contacted in around 2 weeks and given an opportunity to show that she had the railcard. After 3 months of silence we have now received a letter from the prosecutions demanding £50.60.

She was travelling from Watton At Stone to Welwyn Garden City and has a 16-17 Saver Railcard.

I'm half inclined to pay the penalty, as the path of least resistance, but I feel that she should have been given the opportunity to show that she had the railcard.

Is it worthwhile arguing that they haven't given her the opportunity to show that she had the correct railcard?

Please upload a copy of this letter with personal details removed before paying anything.

As per @AlterEgo post it’s v important to understand what this is and get your response worded correctly. People here will help with that before you send the reply.

 

[gray1404]

Which train company are you dealing with? Can you upload a copy of the letter with personal details retracted?

 

[Watton]

I attach the letter with details obscured.

 

[WesternLancer]

I attach the letter with details obscured.

Thanks for the upload - you might also want to blank out the GTR ref number on the letter.

I don't think we have seen letters from GTR in this format before so that's of note.

Yes, as mentioned by @AlterEgo this is essentially an out of court settlement offer - BUT as I understand it your daughter does have mitigation on this that she should reply and state to them - ie she owned a Railcard but was unable to show it on the day - and therefore should be allowed to benefit from the so called 'forgotten railcard policy' that allows a Railcard holder one occasion per 12 months to be let off any penalty or requirement to buy a new ticket if they can show that they did in fact hold a valid railcard. Note - if this has happened to her more than once in last 12 months they may not agree to it....

If you / she draft u pa reply (presuming she is under 18 you can sign it as parent / guardian but it might be simpler if she signs it and it's in her name) but if she is over 18 now she probably needs to sign it and it needs to be from her I suspect)

we can check draft reply for you before sending but basically keep it polite, short and focussed. GTR usually request replies by 14 days from date on their letter so you have time to get the draft correct

format of letter I would suggest

I think this has to be posted hard copy to the address on the letter - if so send it 'tracked 48' from a post office so you can be sure it is delivered - because if they don't get the reply this will escalate sausage machine style

- quote ref number
- thank them for letter and state that you have the following mitigation about the incident that happened on x date when she was unable to show her Railcard
- did in fact own a valid Railcard (assuming she did!) on the date concerned - enclose a copy of the railcard / some proof of having it eg screenshot of it / purchase receipt etc
- state that you are requesting the matter be resolved under the policy that relates being unable to show the Railcard
- ask them to confirm in writing the request for payment of £xx.xx will be cancelled (and when you get that confirmation be sure to keep it for some time)

The basis of this is in the FAQs** that it is worth you and your daughter looking over in general but specifically this one I would say:

Railcard Help | Support & Assistance

Get help with your Railcard, including usage, renewals, payments, and troubleshooting. Find quick answers or contact support for assistance.

www.16-17saver.co.uk

What happens if I don't have my 16-17 Saver with me and I have to buy a new ticket or pay a Penalty Fare?

A:
If you are travelling by train on a ticket with 16-17 Saver discount, you must travel with your valid 16-17 Saver. If you forget your 16-17 Saver you will either be required to buy a new ticket or you may on certain services be liable for a Penalty Fare. However, a train company will normally allow you to claim back this extra expense on the first occasion in each year where this happens.
Each train company will have their own process for doing this. You will need to provide proof of your 16-17 Saver and either the original and additional tickets that you have purchased, or if you have not yet paid, details of the notice to pay or notice of Penalty Fare. Where you have already paid for additional tickets you should contact the relevant train company’s customer services department; in the case of a notice to pay of notice of Penalty Fare, you should follow the instructions included on how to challenge or appeal the charge.

Also I imagine this is backed up by the more formal railway National Conditions of Travel, which all train operators work to, as linked below but I've not dug out the relevant section but link below if you want to look - probably in a section about railcards

National Rail Conditions of Travel | National Rail

When you buy a train ticket to travel on the rail network, you enter into an agreement with the train companies. Find out about the National Rail Conditions of Travel

www.nationalrail.co.uk

**Edit - I note there is another FAQ or 2 on that link about transferring the railcard between devices which might be worth looking at

 

[gray1404]

I would follow the advice above in terms of your response. It seems that this has been dealt with by way of a "no railcard" held matter rather than a "forgotten railcard". Of course you are allowed to forget your rail card or be unable to show it once per year.

 

[Watton]

Something like this?

Regarding settlement offer ref: XXXX

Jane Doe was carrying a valid rail ticket at the time of the incident and held the appropriate railcard.

Unfortunately the app had an issue and failed to display the railcard for the ticket inspector. Please see attached documentation showing the railcard.

I believe this incident should be handled per the national rail policy for forgotten railcards. Please confirm in writing that you will do this and the request for payment of £50.60 will be cancelled.

Regards

John Doe

 

[SECR 65]

Something like this?

Regarding settlement offer ref: XXXX

***** was carrying a valid rail ticket at the time of the incident and held the appropriate railcard.

Unfortunately the app had an issue and failed to display the railcard for the ticket inspector. Please see attached documentation showing the railcard.

I believe this incident should be handled per the national rail policy for forgotten railcards. Please confirm in writing that you will do this and the request for payment of £50.60 will be cancelled.

Regards

*****

You might want to edit the post to remove the names of you and your daughter?

 

[SuspectUsual]

You might want to edit the post to remove the names of you and your daughter?

Unless there’s a monstrous coincidence, John and Jane Doe are placeholder names used in the legal system to protect identities

 

[SECR 65]

Unless there’s a monstrous coincidence, John and Jane Doe are placeholder names used in the legal system to protect identities

Oh I see! My apologies in that case then!

 

[Watton]

Slightly revised?

Regarding settlement offer ref: XXXX

Jane Doe was carrying a valid rail ticket at the time of the incident and held the appropriate railcard. Unfortunately the app had an issue and failed to display the railcard for the ticket inspector. Please see attached documentation showing the railcard.

We were expecting a penalty fare to be issued and I am surprised that the first correspondence we received was this settlement offer. I believe this incident should be handled in accordance with the national rail policy for forgotten railcards.

Please confirm in writing that you will handle this incident in accordance with that policy and the request for payment of £50.60 will be cancelled.

Regards

John Doe

 

[MrJeeves]

Slightly revised?

Regarding settlement offer ref: XXXX

Jane Doe was carrying a valid rail ticket at the time of the incident and held the appropriate railcard. Unfortunately the app had an issue and failed to display the railcard for the ticket inspector. Please see attached documentation showing the railcard.

We were expecting a penalty fare to be issued and I am surprised that the first correspondence we received was this settlement offer. I believe this incident should be handled in accordance with the national rail policy for forgotten railcards.

Please confirm in writing that you will handle this incident in accordance with that policy and the request for payment of £50.60 will be cancelled.

Regards

John Doe

Arugably, your daughter didn't have a valid ticket as they weren't able to display their Railcard for whatever that reason was. I appreciate it sounds quite stupid, though!

Penalty fares are only offered in-the-moment. It's actually a much easier process overall if the incident is reported back to the office instead, as this negates there ever being any penalty (or "fine") to appeal or cancel. I would think something has been lost in translation with this particular incident.

I do think the reply is fine for you to send as-is, though.

You could also upload the evidence of the Railcard to this page on Thameslink's site, alongside sending your email or post reply:

https://www.thameslinkrailway.com/help-and-support/railcard-and-season-ticket-submission

 

[Watton]

I have sent the letter. I hope they respond positively.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 May 2026 ==

They have responded surprisingly quickly. The key point is that "the file has been marked for no further action".

Thank you all for the pointers and advice.

 

[John R]

That’s great to hear and thank you for letting us know.

 

[WesternLancer]

I have sent the letter. I hope they respond positively.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 May 2026 ==

They have responded surprisingly quickly. The key point is that "the file has been marked for no further action".

Thank you all for the pointers and advice.

That's excellent - just keep a copy of that and keep it long term - needless to say

 

[Watton]

I will definitely be keeping a copy and advising my family to switch to physical railcards when they renew. I did not enjoy having to deal with this.

 

[MrJeeves]

I will definitely be keeping a copy and advising my family to switch to physical railcards when they renew.

That's all well and good until you hit the 26-30 bracket!