Penalty fare Cambridge -> Bishop's Stortford GA

[T92]

Hi team,
Through reddit got recommended this forum. Maybe you guys have tips.
Got a penalty fare for a Cambridge to Bishop's Stortford Greater Anglia trip on a Friday afternoon.
Messed up my own schedule and travelled to an appointment two weeks in advance. Did have a ticket for that date, but of course not for the day of travel unfortuantely.
Paid the £50 on the spot as well as the penalty fare full price.
Cambridge train station fare gates weren't closed so I had access to the station without issue. Had they not been open, I wouldn't have gotten in and of course I'd have gotten an appropriate ticket.
First appeal was unsuccessful.

Any advice / worth appealing further despite first appeal refusal?

Best,
T92

 

[jfollows]

It’s an offence to travel on a train without a valid ticket, and only a few reasons such as no means to buy a ticket before travelling allow it. I can’t imagine that Cambridge didn’t have a working ticket machine as well as a ticket office.

You could have been reported for potential prosecution instead of being issued a Penalty Fare, so you are lucky in that. You’ve paid at the discounted rate so put it down to experience and ensure you have a valid ticket in future.

Is there any reason why you think an appeal would succeed? It was essentially your choice to travel without a ticket.

 

[T92]

Arrr, thought so. Hoped maybe maybe based on having a purchased ticket for another date for same time of travel + gates not working + never had issues before, they could turn it into a warning.
I shall put it down to experience indeed

 

[SuspectUsual]

Had they not been open, I wouldn't have gotten in and of course I'd have gotten an appropriate ticket

To be blunt "you didn't stop me from breaking the law" isn't going to cut it with GA.

I think the best course of action is to put it down to experience and move on (and not do it again!)

 

[jfollows]

See https://assets.nationalrail.co.uk/e...3/National_Rail_Conditions_of_Travel_2024.pdf

You must hold a valid Ticket or authority to travel before you board a train where there was
the opportunity to buy one unless one of the following circumstances applies:
6.1.1 At the station where you start your journey, there is no means of purchasing a
Ticket, either because there is no Ticket office open or a self-service Ticket machine
is not in working order, or will not accept your only available method of payment
(card or cash); and where notices indicate that Penalty Fares may apply from
that station, you purchase a Permit to Travel if there is a working Permit to Travel
issuing machine at the station where you start your journey – see Condition 10 for
more information about Penalty Fares; or
The station is staffed, and you are specifically permitted to board a train service
by an authorised member of staff, or you have received a written notice or heard
an audible announcement to this effect; or
At the station where you start your journey, there is no means of purchasing a
Ticket, because
6.1.3.1 the Ticket office is closed; or
6.1.3.2 a self-service Ticket machine is not in working order, or will not
accept your preferred method of payment (card or cash); or
6.1.3.3 You have a disability and Ticket purchasing arrangements at the
station you are departing from are not accessible to you.
In these cases, you must, as soon as you are reasonably able, buy an appropriate
Ticket to complete your journey. The price of the Ticket you purchase will be the same
as if you had bought a Ticket at the station from which you first departed.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

The one point to add is that if you haven't used the ticket for two weeks ahead of time, you can refund it. You might be charged £5 (I think) for the privilege, and refunds can only be done for tickets up to a few weeks out of date (I think 28 days) but this will get some of the money back - as the penalty fare is the ticket that you actually travelled on.

 

[30907]

Two little additions.
1. Once you have paid the PF the matter is closed.
2. The only tickets you need to buy in advance are called Advance tickets. Otherwise there is no advantage (unless you want a long distance seat reservation) - just buy on the day at the same price.

 

[furlong]

If you appeal, you would need to argue that:

16(3)(d) there are compelling reasons why, in the particular circumstances of the case, the appellant should not be liable to pay the penalty fare.

You get three appeals - the third one is more independent and we tend to find the first two appeals don't assess 16(3)(d) properly. There's nothing to lose in trying if you think you might be able to persuade them this wasn't a ruse to try to avoid paying.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Nov 2024 ==

You could add on signage arguments of course. (It's a while since I visited Cambridge, but last time I didn't consider its signage to be compliant with the regulations.) See other threads for how to make those arguments.