Penalty charge appeal

[trainuserbham]

Hello, I am looking for advice please on how to successfully appeal a penalty charge.

I regularly get the train from Dorridge to Snow Hill station. On one occasion that I forgot to purchase a ticket, there were revenue officers checking tickets at Snow Hill.

I was quite upset and had a lovely revenue officer who advised that he appreciated it was a genuine mistake on my part, but he had no option but to issue the penalty.

He advised I come to this forum to seek advice on how to appeal.

He referenced the bye-laws that state no error can be made on the penalty charge notice, he intentionally put my origin station incorrectly as Lapworth instead of Dorridge. Please could I get advice how to appeal the fine?

He said the first appeal would be unsuccessful, but the second would be successful? Thanks in advance.

 

[yorkie]

Hello, I am looking for advice please on how to successfully appeal a penalty charge.

I regularly get the train from Dorridge to Snow Hill station. On one occasion that I forgot to purchase a ticket, there were revenue officers checking tickets at Snow Hill.

I was quite upset and had a lovely revenue officer who advised that he appreciated it was a genuine mistake on my part, but he had no option but to issue the penalty.

That's correct; a Penalty Fare is a higher than normal fare, which companies such as West Midlands Trains, Chiltern etc issue to passengers who have made a genuine mistake under certain circumstances.

He advised I come to this forum to seek advice on how to appeal.

He referenced the bye-laws that state no error can be made on the penalty charge notice, he intentionally put my origin station incorrectly as Lapworth instead of Dorridge. Please could I get advice how to appeal the fine?

He said the first appeal would be unsuccessful, but the second would be successful? Thanks in advance.

As the form was issued incorrectly, you are entitled to appeal on that basis.

However, I would not admit on the form that the person issuing it did you a favour by incorrectly completing the form; I'd keep quiet about that, as it could get them into trouble. Keep it simple and factual.

 

[AlterEgo]

I rather suspect none of these appeals will be successful as it’s up to the OP to substantiate both where they came from and that they told the inspector the correct station. Else this is a get-out for all penalty fares. I’m afraid those are the practicalities of the appeal regardless of what the legislation says.

It would be helpful to see the notice though to see if it is non compliant in any other way. Please do redact your personal info when posting the notice here!

 

[trainuserbham]

Thank you. The penalty fare notice was from West Midlands Trains - photo of fine attached. I absolutely won’t mention that an inspector tried to help me. Do I need to quote any bye laws in the appeal or just state that there is an error? Is there any particular wording I should be using? Also, will the form ask me to say why I didn’t have a ticket - do I just confirm that I had forgotten to purchase or does that count as evidence?! Thanks for your advice.

 

[Elecman]

Did the revenue stop you at the barriers at Snow Hill or in the train as that PF says on the train?

 

[Cuthbert]

Also does it help that the reason for the Penalty Fare is due to "No Supporting Documents".

Shouldn't it be "No Ticket" or similar?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Apr 2025 ==

Did the revenue stop you at the barriers at Snow Hill or in the train as that PF says on the train?

The OP mentions Revenue Officers at Snow Hill checking tickets.

 

[saismee]

Thank you. The penalty fare notice was from West Midlands Trains - photo of fine attached. I absolutely won’t mention that an inspector tried to help me. Do I need to quote any bye laws in the appeal or just state that there is an error? Is there any particular wording I should be using? Also, will the form ask me to say why I didn’t have a ticket - do I just confirm that I had forgotten to purchase or does that count as evidence?! Thanks for your advice.

Maybe hide the inspector ID if you're saying they filled it incorrectly on purpose!

 

[trainuserbham]

Maybe hide the inspector ID if you're saying they filled it incorrectly on purpose!

Thank you - yes I will do that. It was at barriers, not on the train. Good spot - it wasn’t issued on the train. Do I need to reference any bye laws or just state there is an error?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Apr 2025 ==

Also does it help that the reason for the Penalty Fare is due to "No Supporting Documents".

Shouldn't it be "No Ticket" or similar?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Apr 2025 ==


The OP mentions Revenue Officers at Snow Hill checking tickets.

Yes you are right good spot. Thank you! It was at barriers. Is that worth highlighting in my appeal?

 

[womble10]

Thank you - yes I will do that. It was at barriers, not on the train. Good spot - it wasn’t issued on the train. Do I need to reference any bye laws or just state there is an error?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Apr 2025 ==


Yes you are right good spot. Thank you! It was at barriers. Is that worth highlighting in my appeal?

FYI the identifying details are still visible in the attachment to your post #4 above.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

@trainuserbham. Which train did you board / jump on at Dorridge, back on 09APR2025? One operated by Chiltern Trains at around 0920 or a later one by West Midlands Trains at around 0934?

 

[AlterEgo]

The inspector seems to have gone out of their way to get everything about the notice incorrect

 

[Mcr Warrior]

The inspector seems to have gone out of their way to get everything about the notice incorrect

Wondering whether they've just issued the PF with the same details as applied to the previous person stopped that morning?

 

[trainuserbham]

Hi, I was on the 9.03 from Dorridge to Snow Hill, it’s the Worcester Foregate Street train. Operated by West Midlands Trains. I usually get the earlier train, my routine was thrown that day as my son was ill and that’s probably why I forgot to buy my ticket. Is that significant for my appeal?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I'll let others opine on that, noted however that the 0903 from Dorridge starts there, and so doesn't/hasn't called at Lapworth.

Realtime Trains | 0903 Dorridge to Worcester Shrub Hill | 09/04/2025

Real-time train running information for 0903 departure from Dorridge to Worcester Shrub Hill on 09/04/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[trainuserbham]

I'll let others opine on that, noted however that the 0903 from Dorridge starts there, and so doesn't/hasn't called at Lapworth.

Realtime Trains | 0903 Dorridge to Worcester Shrub Hill | 09/04/2025

Real-time train running information for 0903 departure from Dorridge to Worcester Shrub Hill on 09/04/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Thank you!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Apr 2025 ==

Hello, sorry to pester everyone. Please could I get some advice how to word the appeal. Do I need to state that I hadn’t bought a ticket? And do I say that errors made in the PCN render it invalid? Thanks so much. Starting filling in the form and filled with self doubt!

 

[furlong]

he intentionally put my origin station incorrectly as Lapworth instead of Dorridge.

I do find this extremely difficult to believe. It's a very serious allegation to make which, if proven, you'd expect to amount to gross misconduct with the potential for immediate suspension and later dismissal and possible prosecution of the officer concerned. Just as with police, the legal framework depends upon the complete honesty and integrity of the people trusted to enforce the law. Making a mistake when issuing a Penalty Fare or using incorrect information supplied by the passenger would not be unusual, sadly - that's one thing and normal - but it's quite another for someone performing their public duty of imposing Penalty Fares in accordance with the law knowingly to attempt to impose a false penalty on someone, and worse, a penalty that exceeds their actual liability. If this really is true - and I have to retain serious doubts - you ought to report it (but not before hearing the outcome of your first appeal) - corrupt inspectors should have no place on the railway. If you aren't sure or might have been mistaken or misremembered what was said, then obviously don't - and please correct us here, withdrawing the allegation.

Regarding the appeal, you should simply state the basic facts. Where you truthfully began your journey, that you told the inspector that precise station, the train you caught, departure and arrival time, the fact it didn't stop at Lapworth so the notice could not possibly have been issued correctly (this is a material error as the fares are different) and consequently you are appealing on the grounds that it was not issued in accordance with the regulations.

 

[ikcdab]

I find all of this difficult to understand. Whatever the facts about the PCN, the OP had not bought a ticket and so was travelling illegally. That being that case, they should not be trying to appeal the PCN, they need to pay the penalty, learn the lesson and move on.

 

[Haywain]

I find all of this difficult to understand. Whatever the facts about the PCN, the OP had not bought a ticket and so was travelling illegally. That being that case, they should not be trying to appeal the PCN, they need to pay the penalty, learn the lesson and move on.

On the contrary, if the notice has been incorrectly completed the OP is not liable. I do not support fare evasion at all, but the process for dealing with it is set put and justice demands that processes are followed correctly by both sides.

 

[furlong]

I find all of this difficult to understand. Whatever the facts about the PCN, the OP had not bought a ticket and so was travelling illegally. That being that case, they should not be trying to appeal the PCN, they need to pay the penalty, learn the lesson and move on.

Taking the facts offered at face value, the penalty was greater than that which the law permitted to be imposed: Why would anyone not appeal in such circumstances?