Anecdotal, but ... I did a fair deal of walking in the Matlock area last week, and the path along Peak Rail was considerably busier than any of the other rural footpaths. So I am not sure railway tracks are as off-putting as some seem to think!
For those hoping to use this as a solution to the "full" Hope Valley line - a(nother) dose of reality - it will be far cheaper to upgrade the Hope Valley with additional loops and improved signalling than it will be to rebuild Matlock - Buxton.
Once it becomes new line territory then surely a Manchester to Sheffield tunnel is the most useful option. High(ish) speed and direct under the hills. Connected into HS2 East then you have Sheffield to Derby, Sheffield to Nottingham and Sheffield to Leicester upgraded and fast connection to Manchester.
I do not think for a second that you would build a high(ish) speed link between Manchester and Sheffield, but if the aim was better journeys from the East Midlands to Manchester then that tunnel would be more of the solution than anything through Matlock.
This thread is a perfect microcosm of why we very rarely manage to reopen, or build new, railway lines in this country.
A proposal is made; everyone immediately starts shouting. The naysayers make sure they shout the loudest. It doesn't matter how logically the case in support is put forward, it's just met with a wall of "no, no, no"!! If any supporters choose not to engage in the mudslinging they are accused of "running away" from the "debate".
As someone who uses the Hope Valley line several times a week I can tell you that it is full! It cannot accommodate a Derby to Manchester service, at least not with any hope (no pun intended!) of reliability. And that is the case no matter how many times it is suggested in this thread.
Yes, you can spend millions on capacity upgrades, as was done between Dore and Bamford a couple of years ago- the scheme should have gone to either Chinley or New Mills South, but the money ran out (!)
But any extra capacity created soon fills up; the work done so far has made very little difference to the reliability of services on the route.
Ultimately we need more lines rather than tweaking the existing ones constantly.
I was going to try and answer many of the points in this latest thread to discus reopening this line but have held fire.
It was about 1980 that I enthusiastically joined Peak Rail. Over the next few decades I donated funds and subscribed for shares in the fond belief that restoring the Bridge Street bridge would get us out of Buxton with relatively easy access from there to Wye Dale then to Chinley and connections for Manchester and Sheffield. Next aim Millers Dale and onwards north and south. A very short lived trial DMU service came in as far as a halt at Chee Dale. The Buxton site was getting established and the way looked set for full reopening. It was far too easy to believe the dream, not least because the line had only been closed since 1968.
Damp squib that has turned out to be as operations were moved to Darley Dale and Rowsley with the site at Buxton sold off for a bottled spring water plant that has itself closed. I naively suggested a first train to arrive in Bakewell at 20.10 on the 20th October 2010! Although I'm still a member the rose coloured spectacles went a long time ago. In the meantime I've walked as close as possible to the line from from Buxton to Derby. Only yesterday I was on the train from Rowsley to Matlock Riverside and can confirm the path alongside the single track was being used by cyclists. I'd observe that being alongside a slow moving heritage steam train seems to be fun, an experience to stop for photos or ride alongside. Not quite the same alongside a freight loco and maybe 25 heavy freight wagons. Residents in housing built alongside the railway since 1968 at Darley Dale and elsewhere would be likely to resist reopening as well as Monsal Trail users. A fairly quiet heritage line is a very different proposition to a full working freight line. A full public inquiry would be inevitable.
Yes, it would probably be far more cost effective to upgrade signalling from Earles into Manchester, add a westbound loop at Earles, make Dore station lines bi-directional, and add more looping options around Chinley.
Using Dore South curve is being mentioned. You can't have your cake for passenger trains and eat it for freights. They may run straight round but often will rest on the curve for gaps in traffic on both mainlines. It needs quite a long gap in MML traffic in both directions before a loaded aggregate train can lumber round the tight bend and up the hill into Bradway Tunnel. You couldn't run a reliable regular passenger service in both directions on the same tracks.
I use the Hope Valley trains frequently. I live beside the line. It's incredibly frustrating that after spending so much (almost certainly a lot more than the £145m that may be quoted since planning started in the mid 1990s) no new services are running between Sheffield and Manchester. That's mostly not the fault of the Hope Valley, more it's lack of capacity around Manchester that would also apply to any services running in from the Buxton and Derby direction. Work is also needed to add back at least a third track down the Sheaf Valley into Sheffield with major platform reconfiguration.
The tracks from Matlock to Ambergate are currently run with one train in a single line section running across old bridges and through old tunnels maintained for relatively light passenger services. Having walked the Monsal Trail section I should imagine that will be similar - lots of over hanging trees and undermining roots. Rabbit warrens a plenty. Of course a line can be rebuilt to carry both passenger and freight traffic, at a price and over years.
Which brings me to who would use it coming from where to exactly where? As has already been stated the most used bus routes into Bakewell are from Chesterfield and Sheffield rather than from Derby. The Peak Park covers 550 square miles. Buxton, Matlock, Ashbourne and Glossop aren't in it so the greater Park area is possibly nearer 700 square miles. Clearly this rail line won't help those around Glossop or Ashbourne. The Hope Valley line isn't helping Castleton that much now, witness the campervans parking up the old Mam Tor road and plans for red line parking restrictions. In Edale two farmers are using fields for parking within sight of the station. The picture is on one sunny day. All the people in all these cars look like a lot, but spread over an hourly, all day, 7 day a week rail service, come rain, snow as well as shine it wouldn't make a rebuilding business case. They've come with all their belongings from all points of the compass. There are masses more all over the Peak.
I'd contend that a lot of careful tweaking can deliver much cheaper and quicker gains than this proposed scheme that wouldn't/couldn't be delivered much before 2050. By which time we may have stopped quarrying so much limestone.
But if we want improvements in capacity without extra routes or even more paths on existing routes there's a relatively easy answer. Longer trains. I noted EMR's 1R50 0942 Nottingham to Manchester Piccadilly was full and standing in all 6 cars out of Dore this morning. Their 1M90 0830 Nottingham to Manchester Piccadilly only started in December and at 4 car is also filling well. Maybe start considering 8 car? Lack of rolling stock. Short platforms. Both quicker and cheaper to resolve than reopening this line.
But with GBR and all TOCs working together TPE and Northern can also plan increased train lengths if finance can be found to order the trains and to staff them. Of course if 185s, 195s, 170s, 15xs and any new units could work together it would be very useful.
Finally, improving the current Hope Valley route for appreciably faster trains was effectively shelved as part of the recently completed improvements. The propensity of the landscape to slip was against it at viable cost. However if there's a spare minimum £10-20bn anywhere a new base tunnel from under Sheffield Midland to an interchange hub below Manchester Piccadilly could get a service between the two city centres in about 20 minutes by 2060 - dream on. Thomas Telford managed to complete the Standedge Huddersfield Narrow Canal tunnel of over 3 miles back in 1811. He'd be amazed at our lack of ambition with all the modern equipment available
