Passport prices to increase yet again from next month.

[RT4038]

I suspect if you were born abroad and lived there and travel on a foreign passport with ETA even if you are technically dual through a British parent it is probably pretty low chance of this being discovered or an issue.

Surely they have zero time to look at this at the border?

Quite. I think people are getting frightened of shadows - probably fuelled by click-bait and passport/citizenship agencies trying to make money.

If you were not born in the UK, not applied for a UK passport previously, got no NI number, never applied for naturalisation, it is highly unlikely that the UKBF or any other agency would consider you a British Citizen (unless you commit some fairly major crime), even if you are a British Citizen on a technicality.

The problem is not at the border. If you arrive in the UK and UKBF decides you are a British citizen, they must let you in regardless of what passport you present. There's also no problem if they don't realise you are a British citizen and accept you as a foreigner.

So what is the problem then? On arrival the UK may decide you are eligible for National Service? The UK won't let you out again to go home, or levy a large fine?

I'm a British-Australian dual national and I had to specifically apply to Australia for my children to obtain Australian citizenship by descent. THis means they need to enter Australia on an Australian passport. Fine- that's the choice I made for them. But if I hadn't applied for the citizenship then they wouldn't be Australian and therefore would be eligible for an ETA to enter Australia. That's not the same with the UK- you're automatically British and that's that.

It's worth noting that not being in a possession of a British passport doesn't prevent someone from falling foul of other countries' prohibition on dual nationality. You don't have to be in possession of the passport to be a dual national. And, even if you are in possession of the passport, the other country doesn't have to accept you as a dual national- the Chinese don't.

There's actually been a lot of issues in Australia in the last couple of years around this exact issue.

Are you a dual citizen? You might have lost your Australian rights without knowing it

A recent case has highlighted the plight of those caught in legal limbo because they lost their citizenship. So how did we get here, when can citizenship be stripped under the law, and what are some solutions?

www.abc.net.au

I note from the newspaper article that this referred to someone 'taking up' the citizenship of another country, i.e. doing something positive like applying for a passport, applying for naturalisation etc, rather than simply being entitled as a birthright. The citizen concerned having applied for an Irish passport in order to travel around Europe more easily. They hadn't been refused Australian citizenship at the time of their birth on the grounds that the parents birthright was that they also could be citizens. There are other countries that are like this now, or even tighter.

Most people would be uncomfortable about lying on a government form and after learning they are citizens they would want to comply with the rules. I am sure the Home Office knows they cannot easily detect everyone born abroad who is potentially a citizen, but they are hardly going to make an official statement that you can break the rules if you think they won't find out.

I am sure this issue was not thought about when the rules were changed (or the ETA form designed). I am sure the UK (and other countries that have it) could change the rules about 'automatic citizenship' - no doubt sheets of flame will roar in all directions if it were, but in the meantime - comply with the rules to the letter, or renounce the UK citizenship. Both are a little pesky, but not that hard to do. Or just don't visit if they think the shadows are that dark.

 

[Pegpilot]

What I WOULD say is that HMPO appears to be blindingly efficient when compared with the slow collapse of most public services. Applied for a replacement for my expired passport on line 6 days ago and it's apparently printed and in the post already. Not bad at all, methinks !

 

[zero]

If you were not born in the UK, not applied for a UK passport previously, got no NI number, never applied for naturalisation, it is highly unlikely that the UKBF or any other agency would consider you a British Citizen (unless you commit some fairly major crime), even if you are a British Citizen on a technicality.

The UKBF would absolutely consider you a British citizen, if they chose to ask for all the relevant information.

Boris Johnson thought he was only a US citizen "on a technicality". The US saw things differently.

Would you lie on a US ESTA application because you think the US is unlikely to know that you lied? (For example, if you apply for an ESTA on a UK passport, but also have another country's passport on which you've been to one of the "evil" countries that disqualifies you from ESTA?)

Quite. I think people are getting frightened of shadows - probably fuelled by click-bait and passport/citizenship agencies trying to make money.

I am sure this issue was not thought about when the rules were changed (or the ETA form designed). I am sure the UK (and other countries that have it) could change the rules about 'automatic citizenship' - no doubt sheets of flame will roar in all directions if it were, but in the meantime - comply with the rules to the letter, or renounce the UK citizenship. Both are a little pesky, but not that hard to do. Or just don't visit if they think the shadows are that dark.

So which is it, do you want people to comply with the rules to the letter, or do you want people to not comply when the UK is "highly unlikely to know" that you are "technically" a citizen?

So what is the problem then? On arrival the UK may decide you are eligible for National Service? The UK won't let you out again to go home, or levy a large fine?

The problem is, to return to the topic of this thread, people who want to comply with the rules are being forced to pay for a rather expensive and useless (to them) British passport. While people with a more cavalier attitude are likely to get ETAs approved anyway and face no consequences.

Also, the point of the ETA is to identify foreigners who are likely to be denied entry to the UK, and prevent them wasting time and money travelling to the UK and then getting deported. So the ETA is making things more convenient for "bad" foreigners while inconveniencing honest people who the UK regards as its own.

 

[RT4038]

The UKBF would absolutely consider you a British citizen, if they chose to ask for all the relevant information.

Boris Johnson thought he was only a US citizen "on a technicality". The US saw things differently.

Would you lie on a US ESTA application because you think the US is unlikely to know that you lied? (For example, if you apply for an ESTA on a UK passport, but also have another country's passport on which you've been to one of the "evil" countries that disqualifies you from ESTA?)



So which is it, do you want people to comply with the rules to the letter, or do you want people to not comply when the UK is "highly unlikely to know" that you are "technically" a citizen?


The problem is, to return to the topic of this thread, people who want to comply with the rules are being forced to pay for a rather expensive and useless (to them) British passport. While people with a more cavalier attitude are likely to get ETAs approved anyway and face no consequences.

Also, the point of the ETA is to identify foreigners who are likely to be denied entry to the UK, and prevent them wasting time and money travelling to the UK and then getting deported. So the ETA is making things more convenient for "bad" foreigners while inconveniencing honest people who the UK regards as its own.

I understand what you are saying. Either (a) we accept that British Citizens require a British passport to be presented at the Border , like the vast majority of British Citizens have to do and these Australians (and others) who are also automatically British Citizens will have to get a British Passport in order to travel here, or renounce their British Citizenship, or (b) we can change the law so that British Citizenship is not an automatic assumption based on birthright but has to be 'applied' for (and automatically granted where the criteria is met) or (c) we could change the ETA question to something like- have you ever held a British Passport, have you ever been granted naturalisation as a British Citizen? If so, then unless you can submit a renunciation certificate, you can't get an ETA but must present a UK Passport on entry

It would seem that (b) would be the best, but (c) the simplest in the meantime.

 

[Tetchytyke]

If you were not born in the UK, not applied for a UK passport previously, got no NI number, never applied for naturalisation, it is highly unlikely that the UKBF or any other agency would consider you a British Citizen (unless you commit some fairly major crime), even if you are a British Citizen on a technicality.

If the UK Border Force ask the right questions then they will easily identify you as a British citizen. "Do you have a British parent?" is a very straightforward question for most people to answer.

Ticking the box to say you're not British when you are is lying.

Lying on an immigration document isn't something that I would do. Maybe your risk tolerance is different.

Both are a little pesky, but not that hard to do. Or just don't visit if they think the shadows are that dark.

The issue has been the speed of the change and the lack of communication.

It won't be an issue in 12 months because people will have been able to get passports sorted and, because of the furore, people will know the rules. It's an issue now because the UK government changed the rules at short notice without telling anyone. People who could get ETAs now can't and the government's response has been to shrug its shoulders.

What I WOULD say is that HMPO appears to be blindingly efficient when compared with the slow collapse of most public services.

HMPO are actually pretty good, although the standard domestic service is 20 working days from application to printing. And that's printing and posting, not receipt. Anything less than a month is a bonus.

Make it more like two months if you're applying from overseas.

 

[JamesT]

The issue has been the speed of the change and the lack of communication.

It won't be an issue in 12 months because people will have been able to get passports sorted and, because of the furore, people will know the rules. It's an issue now because the UK government changed the rules at short notice without telling anyone. People who could get ETAs now can't and the government's response has been to shrug its shoulders.

How long would have been enough notice? The government claim they’ve had information available since October 2024. This was the eventual end state once they started introducing ETA in 2022.

 

[gazthomas]

Tickles me that UK Government says they're helping citizens with the cost of living then so things like this.

Incidentally are the passports still printed in France?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Incidentally are the passports still printed in France?

Last I heard they were being produced over in Tczew, Poland.

 

[DM352]

We've recently done Canadian passports and it is $260 Canadian or nearly £200 for the 10 year Canadian passport. They have different fees for inside and outside the country applications which makes it £80 or so more expensive to issue abroad - presumably shipping costs.

I can also say having done both UK and Canada passports, the UK application is better and more efficient.

I did the UK one from Canada and it was pretty quick with the 20 quid courier fee tacked on. This was needed for the recent new ETA rule entering the UK.

Canadian passport renewal speed has been hit and miss in part if Canada Post is used, but there is a rush option for more $$$ going to a local office.

 

[stadler]

An interesting article in the news yesterday about an Isle Of Man passport holder who was refused entry to China as they consider that passport to be ineligible for visa free travel:

Woman deported from China over Manx passport mix-up

A woman from the Isle of Man says she was escorted back on to the plane by Chinese border guards.

www.bbc.co.uk

Woman deported from China over Manx passport mix-up​

A woman was refused entry after a 12-hour flight to Shanghai

By Alex Blake

Isle of Man

• • Published
    30 March 2026

A woman from Douglas has described the "horrible" experience of being refused entry to China and immediately deported, despite believing she was covered by a new visa-exemption agreement.

The 26-year-old, who does not want to be named, was embarking on a 10-day solo holiday, flying from Gatwick to Shanghai.

But upon arrival, Chinese immigration officials deemed her Isle of Man passport invalid for the 30-day visa-free entry currently offered to British citizens.

She said she made repeated efforts to resolve the situation before she was eventually "herded" through security and escorted onto a plane back to the UK.

It was after the 12-hour flight to China the woman reached the domestic transfer desk in Shanghai, where she was due to board a flight to Guangzhou.

But the airport officials looked "confused" she said, and asked to see her visa.

The Douglas resident said she did not need one as the Isle of Man was part of the British Isles, but she was pulled aside and told to wait.

The Isle of Man is a crown dependency within the British Isles

She explained that a supervisor told her that her passport was not part of the United Kingdom or Great Britain, and she needed a visa to enter China.

They said: "You don't have one so you need to go back home," she recalled.

'Like a fugitive'​

As the situation escalated, the woman's boyfriend in the UK contacted the Chinese Consulate in London, who opened a case file and confirmed they could help.

However, a "blackout" in communication occurred because the British Consulate in Shanghai had not yet opened for the day.

"I couldn't get through to anybody, my parents, my boyfriend, and even the London consulate couldn't get through to anybody in China," she explained.

She told the BBC said she was eventually escorted through security and onto a plane back to the UK.
She said it was a stressful experience and it "almost felt like a little bit like a fugitive.

"It felt like I'd done something really wrong, and I felt really stupid."

Her passport was confiscated for the duration of the 12-hour flight and only returned to her once she landed back at Gatwick.

"Nothing makes you feel quite more alone than being refused entry to a country and then not sure what's happening with yourself," she said.

While the woman has now returned safely to the island, she has written to the Cabinet Office to seek clarity on why the Manx passport, which identifies the holder as a British Citizen, was not recognised under the international agreement.

"I don't blame the people at immigration for questioning it... but also to know that some formal agreement has been signed and half of the people I know in London and England agree that I'm supposed to be in there but the people in China don't."

The BBC has contacted the Isle of Man Government for comment.

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It seems like the Isle Of Man passport (and i presume also others like the Jersey / Guernsey / Gibraltar etc) is not eligible for the same visa free travel that the standard British passport gets. You have to get a visa to China (and probably some other countries too) despite British citizens with a normal British passport getting visa free entry. But yet they still charge the same rates for an Isle Of Man passport. So people living there pay the same price but get less visa free validity.

 

[styles]

An interesting article in the news yesterday about an Isle Of Man passport holder who was refused entry to China as they consider that passport to be ineligible for visa free travel:

Woman deported from China over Manx passport mix-up

A woman from the Isle of Man says she was escorted back on to the plane by Chinese border guards.

www.bbc.co.uk

It seems like the Isle Of Man passport (and i presume also others like the Jersey / Guernsey / Gibraltar etc) is not eligible for the same visa free travel that the standard British passport gets. You have to get a visa to China (and probably some other countries too) despite British citizens with a normal British passport getting visa free entry. But yet they still charge the same rates for an Isle Of Man passport. So people living there pay the same price but get less visa free validity.

I'd have thought visa exemptions would be based on citizenship, rather than country of issue. But then I hold a UK passport and have never had to consider this before!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Apr 2026 ==

Tickles me that UK Government says they're helping citizens with the cost of living then so things like this.

Is a passport part of the 'cost of living'?

 

[stadler]

Another follow up article has been published on the BBC News this morning about other plenty of holders of Isle Of Man passports being refused entry to China and Turkey and other countries so it seems like a far more common issue.

Tourists detained and deported over Isle of Man passport issues

Several Manx tourists have shared experiences being held abroad following passport issues.

www.bbc.co.uk

Tourists detained and deported over passport issue​

Kelly Bailey was refused entry to Turkey and deported back to Manchester

By Alex Blake

Isle of Man

• • Published
    5 hours ago

Several residents have shared their "terrifying" experiences at international borders, where issues with Isle of Man passports have led to deportations, detentions, accusations of forgery, and emergency travel documents.

It comes after a 26-year-old solo traveller reported being refused entry to China on arrival.

Since then more residents have come forward sharing similar experiences in other countries.

Kelly Bailey described feeling "like a criminal" after being held for eight hours without her luggage, food or water, in Istanbul and escorted on a return plane to Manchester.

She had flown to Turkey in late 2022, after travelling there with her children months earlier without any issues on the same passport.

But this time she said officials pulled her to one side, told her she needed a visa and had to apply through the UK Embassy in London.

With the office closed, she said she was held overnight for eight hours, without food or drink, with her luggage confiscated and only left with her phone.

Garry Bolton and his partner were held at Istanbul airport before being sent back to the UK

"It absolutely terrified me," she recalled, adding: "I was alone and so upset... it was humiliating."

Another Manx resident, Garry Bolton reported a similar ordeal in Turkey, when he travelled there with his partner for her birthday - but said they never made it past the airport.

He said they were detained in Istanbul after officials believed small design changes on their passports indicated forgeries.

Bolton added: "We were accused of trying to enter the country on false passports."

He said they were also held for about eight hours without food or water before being escorted onto a plane back to the UK.

Bolton described his partner as especially scared and outlined how their attempts to get help from the Turkish consulate and the Isle of Man government brought no resolution.

He claimed the ordeal left them thousands of pounds out of pocket, and said they had since obtained UK passports to avoid it happening in the future.

A further traveller, Niall Quiggin from Onchan, shared his passport issues in China.

Niall Quiggin was held for hours before being granted an emergency visa

He was travelling to Yangzhou for work, assuming his passport would fall under China's temporary visa-free travel arrangement for UK nationals.

But upon arrival in Shanghai, Quiggin said he was singled out at immigration.

"All the other British nationals [were] just going through easily," he said, adding that officials stared at his passport for some time and eventually moved him to a holding room for more than two hours.

Quiggin was eventually granted a temporary emergency entry permit, valid only for the dates of his travel, with the requirement to apply for a full visa in the future.

Quiggin was told the cause was the wording of his passport, where instead of reading: "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland," it read: "British Islands Isle of Man."

He hoped the incident prompted clearer guidance from authorities on how crown dependencies' passports were treated under international agreements.

While he said he liked "the Manx passport being a bit different", he thought key wording should be clearer for countries outside of the British Isles to understand.

The Isle of Man Immigration Service acknowledged the recent case in China where a Manx passport holder was denied entry.

It said entry rules are set solely by host countries and travellers must ensure their passports meet local requirements.

Travellers were advised to consult the UK Foreign, Commonwealth & Development Office and relevant embassies, it said.

Get in touch​

Tell us which stories we should cover on the Isle of Man

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I wonder if border officers think that they are a separate category of citizen. There are also other types of citizens like British Overseas Citizens which are different to British Citizens and have different rights. I reckon border guards may be thinking that an Isle Of Man passport indicates this.

 

[AlterEgo]

At least one of those people wanted to enter as a tourist on a "work trip" which makes me question the real substance of his circumstances. He needed a visa anyway even if he was from the UK.

 

[gazthomas]

Is a passport part of the 'cost of living'?

It is included in the Office for National Statistics basket of goods" so on that basis, yes.

https://share.google/dVoqOQxIuivQB5GwR

You could debate forever whether items are discretionary or not.