Passengers - would you report a fare dodger?

[jon0844]

What if the fare dodger was your mother-in-law?

 

[muz379]

Correct Jon.

This person is abusing the facilities that all rail-workers are entitled too. In the past, ticket inspectors would follow any suspect to their place of work and establish the facts, before taking the matter further and the miscreany having their facilities removed.

I have now reported this person to ATOC to see what happens next..

As a side note, the persons son, works on the "gate-line" at one end of her journey, so is he "compelling the fraud", by allowing her through the barrier?

How do you actually know she is misuing it have you been following her to work ? If that is the case I suspect someone has far too much time on their hands

I hardly see it as abusing the facilities , it is a benefit in kind so there is no actual value placed on it by the TOC's or HMRC . The train goes where the train is going regardless of if she is riding it to work or riding it for leisure , these travel facilities have no peak or off peak restriction on them so she would perfectly be entitled to ride the train for one purpose and not the other .

I personally would not shop another colleagues partner/spouse for allegedly misusing travel facilities . But then I dont have the cheek to ask every single passenger what the purpose of their journey is .

Its probably more effort than it is worth for the TOC to deal with .

If it is a TOC issued pass she is misusing I also dont see what it has to do with ATOC as the travel facilities for partners/spouses is a non contractual benefit in kind between the TOC and its employee .

 

[Mutant Lemming]

What if the fare dodger was your mother-in-law?

Touche Monsieur Pussycat - as François Mouse's son would say.

It is one of those hidden statistics we will probably never know but how many revenue staff would actually shop one of their own friends or relatives ?
.... damned if they do and damned if they don't really.

 

[21C101]

Its probably worth pointing out the following:

If you have reported someone fraudulently travelling, you might be called to testify in court and the judge and prosecution may not be too pleased if you have aired it here first, the defence barrister will be very pleased indeed if you have aired it here first.

Not all ticket inspectors have priv travel. My local line had contractor RPIs who were very enthusiastic and gave staff no quarter.

AIUI Someone could travel permanently to work using privs/boxes/red box status pass if that person is doing unpaid charitable work. Similarly they could be a mature student travelling to college. Partners of very senior managers get their own status pass which they could use as above.

Family members who are dependents get priv travel. This includes a dependent elderly mother/father not just husband/wife and kids.

That said, my advice is NEVER EVER abuse your staff travel. Aside from the moral issue, is it really worth losing your job and your families lifetime discount/free travel for the sake of a few quid?

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Its probably worth pointing out the following:

If you have reported someone fraudulently travelling, you might be called to testify in court and the judge and prosecution may not be too pleased if you have aired it here first, the defence barrister will be very pleased indeed if you have aired it here first.

Not all ticket inspectors have priv travel. My local line had contractor RPIs who were very enthusiastic and gave staff no quarter.

AIUI Someone could travel permanently to work using privs/boxes/red box status pass if that person is doing unpaid charitable work. Similarly they could be a mature student travelling to college. Partners of very senior managers get their own status pass which they could use as above.

Family members who are dependents get priv travel. This includes a dependent elderly mother/father not just husband/wife and kids.

That said, my advice is NEVER EVER abuse your staff travel. Aside from the moral issue, is it really worth losing your job and your families lifetime discount/free travel for the sake of a few quid?

I do actually think that those staff who admit they let fellow TOC emplyees travel for free are not doing anyone any favours by announcing it on this forum.
For one it gives the public the impression that there are one set of rules for them and another for the 'railway family' (not sure about that term has me thinking Jenny Agutter for some reason). Like many illicit activities it may go on but continually highlighting it will draw attention to it and someone may end up being made an example of as a result. I recall having a post removed regarding stopping short on an advance becuase it 'encouraged fraud'. Posts where railway staff admit they allow people to travel on the railway without paying when they should be are surely doing the same ?

 

[21C101]

I do actually think that those staff who admit they let fellow TOC emplyees travel for free are not doing anyone any favours by announcing it on this forum.
For one it gives the public the impression that there are one set of rules for them and another for the 'railway family' (not sure about that term has me thinking Jenny Agutter for some reason). Like many illicit activities it may go on but continually highlighting it will draw attention to it and someone may end up being made an example of as a result. I recall having a post removed regarding stopping short on an advance becuase it 'encouraged fraud'. Posts where railway staff admit they allow people to travel on the railway without paying when they should be are surely doing the same ?

People doing this may also one day have on their conscience the said RPI/Guard/Ticket collector losing their job and getting prosecuted as well as a criminal record of their own to worry about.

 

[Blinder]

People doing this may also one day have on their conscience the said RPI/Guard/Ticket collector losing their job and getting prosecuted as well as a criminal record of their own to worry about.

When I was employed by ATOC as an auditor, I had no problems in proving that the 24 members of staff in London & South East that were proven to be undertaking credit-card fraud, therefore stealing from credit car companies. I think that the total amount of fraud by these (ex) members of staff was in the region of £450k.

One railway company took one of these people back on (a different company as it turns out). It took three months before he was prosecuted again for forging "driver competency dockets".
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

How do you actually know she is misuing it have you been following her to work ? If that is the case I suspect someone has far too much time on their hands

I hardly see it as abusing the facilities , it is a benefit in kind so there is no actual value placed on it by the TOC's or HMRC . The train goes where the train is going regardless of if she is riding it to work or riding it for leisure , these travel facilities have no peak or off peak restriction on them so she would perfectly be entitled to ride the train for one purpose and not the other .

I personally would not shop another colleagues partner/spouse for allegedly misusing travel facilities . But then I dont have the cheek to ask every single passenger what the purpose of their journey is .

Its probably more effort than it is worth for the TOC to deal with .

If it is a TOC issued pass she is misusing I also dont see what it has to do with ATOC as the travel facilities for partners/spouses is a non contractual benefit in kind between the TOC and its employee .

I do not have to follow the person to work.. they work for me. I have pointed out the error of their ways in misusing the "leisure pass" that they have, the response is "it is up to them (the railway) to catch me!".

 

[muz379]

When I was employed by ATOC as an auditor, I had no problems in proving that the 24 members of staff in London & South East that were proven to be undertaking credit-card fraud, therefore stealing from credit car companies. I think that the total amount of fraud by these (ex) members of staff was in the region of £450k.

One railway company took one of these people back on (a different company as it turns out). It took three months before he was prosecuted again for forging "driver competency dockets".
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I do not have to follow the person to work.. they work for me. I have pointed out the error of their ways in misusing the "leisure pass" that they have, the response is "it is up to them (the railway) to catch me!".

If It bothers you that much , dont have them working for you in future then .

I do think the person is right though it is between them and the railways , its nothing to do with you as their employer . Like If I get a speeding ticket on the way to work (driving jobs excepted) that is nothing to do with my employer , even if my employer is a special constable and is the one who has pulled me other so they are aware of it . The matter is completely separate from my employment .

 

[Blinder]

If It bothers you that much , dont have them working for you in future then .

I do think the person is right though it is between them and the railways , its nothing to do with you as their employer . Like If I get a speeding ticket on the way to work (driving jobs excepted) that is nothing to do with my employer , even if my employer is a special constable and is the one who has pulled me other so they are aware of it . The matter is completely separate from my employment .

I only pointed out to the person, that if they were caught using a "Leisure" pass then they will lose ALL travel facilities, including "Staff Travel Card".

 

[edwin_m]

There are some offences that employers consider to be grounds for dismissal as they indicate the person is not suitable for the job - as an extreme example I doubt anyone working in a bank would keep their job if they were convicted for bank robbery! Just as with the hedge fund manager who was named and shamed a few weeks back, in some jobs an offence such as fare dodging could be construed as indicating dishonesty.

I recall a post on another forum by a former BR manager who dismissed someone for poor attendance record, when the reason for the poor attendance was that they were banged up.

 

[Blinder]

There are some offences that employers consider to be grounds for dismissal as they indicate the person is not suitable for the job - as an extreme example I doubt anyone working in a bank would keep their job if they were convicted for bank robbery! Just as with the hedge fund manager who was named and shamed a few weeks back, in some jobs an offence such as fare dodging could be construed as indicating dishonesty.

I recall a post on another forum by a former BR manager who dismissed someone for poor attendance record, when the reason for the poor attendance was that they were banged up.

Even better is that when a member of staff is dismissed for "poor time-keeping" when they travel to work by their own TOC.

 

[Wolfie]

What if the fare dodger was your mother-in-law?

Depends if:
a You wish to stay married;
b Your partner finds out.

Dobbing your partner's mother in might not do wonders for relatonship longevit longevity.....