Passengers who refuse to allow others to sit next to them

[YorkshireRider]

Have to agree. If you ask if anyone owns a bag and nobody responds it sounds like negligence if you just ignore it.

Quite agree, there has been a number of occasions when a random bag has been brought to my attention by a passenger and ive done just this, after a PA announcement the owner has come forward but if not i wouldnt allow the train to leave the station.

 

[londonbridge]

Was on the 18:28 Newcastle-Kings X yesterday,the 17:58 had been cancelled so the train was busy,train manager kept calling for people to remove all bags from seats and threatening to charge passengers for any extra seats taken up by their bags.

 

[cjohnson]

Was on the 18:28 Newcastle-Kings X yesterday,the 17:58 had been cancelled so the train was busy,train manager kept calling for people to remove all bags from seats and threatening to charge passengers for any extra seats taken up by their bags.

The NRCOC changed in May to allow charging for bags occupying seats (condition 47) - good to see it in action!

 

[Coolguy22468]

The NRCOC changed in May to allow charging for bags occupying seats (condition 47) - good to see it in action!

Maybe they should do that with people who reserve seats for people who are not there by charging the full anytime single for each station that the train goes through which the seat is "reserved" but not occupied.

 

[Bushy]

As a commuter who joins the up train early enough to ensure a choice of seats, I prefer an aisle seat but am always ready to get up to allow somebody to take the adjacent seat. If two people are travelling together and the seat on the opposite side of the aisle is vacant as I will either move to the window seat or even into the other aisle seat so that they can converse.

I have once seen a woman give a male passenger 'the evil eye' when he asked to sit in the window seat next to her and then again when she had to move to allow him to leave the seat at his destination; otherwise I can't remember an occasion when there has been a problem with somebody not allowing a seat to be used. Sometimes people have problems with large baggage items but they usually end up putting it in the aisle which is an inconvenience if there is a refreshments trolley but that can be managed.

I haven't come across religion being given as a reason not to give up a seat but, being the type of person I am, would probably ensure those around were aware that the person had refused to allow me to use the seat but not get into an argument about it.

Regards

Bushy

 

[Johnuk123]

I wonder what you mean by "should" in this extract.
Perhaps you are referring to a statute (or similar) which imposes certain constraints on citizens, or, perhaps, you are simply expressing a personal preference or belief.

If the former, then it would be a help me if you could remind us which statute requires a personal belief to "fit around the general public" and "one law for all".
If the latter, then I apologise for for the challenge, but if you are content to express a personal view about how others express their beliefs of what is true (which you have done), and also claim "one law for all", then I'll guess that you are also content that others will express their personal view about how others express theirs. That position, of course, leads to pluralism - differing beliefs pertaining simultaneously to the same life, fact, situation or statement.

For my part, I have every respect for any expression of profound faith, and have enjoyed the unexpected company of fellow travellers on some of my railway journeys who have shared their beliefs and faiths with me, much to my benefit. I hope I am lucky enough to still meet more people with such profound and committed beliefs and faiths who are generous enough to share some of their philosophy and their experiences with me.

As for seats, I remember giving up my seat earler this year so that I could travel in the vestibule with a Rabbi who was kind enough to share some of his photos, stories and practices with me. Over the years, I've given up my seat in order to talk with a Tibetan Buddhist, some Catholics, some Hindus, a CofE vicar and athiests (and also enjoying profound discussion with others while remainging at my seat - perhaps the most surprising was one of East Coast's crew discussing the "Tibetan Book of the Dead"). But I can't recall any of them telling me what passengers "should do".
Not one.

So do you think a muslim woman should be allowed to keep an empty seat next to her because she doesn't want a man in it ?

 

[ainsworth74]

Maybe they should do that with people who reserve seats for people who are not there by charging the full anytime single for each station that the train goes through which the seat is "reserved" but not occupied.

I book two tickets and two seat reservations for me and a friend. Unfortunately my friend is taken ill and can no longer travel. I take it then I should be charged extra as a result?

 

[calc7]

I book two tickets and two seat reservations for me and a friend. Unfortunately my friend is taken ill and can no longer travel. I take it then I should be charged extra as a result?

I think Coolguy22468 means people who, when asked if the seat next to them is available, claim that their "friend is getting on at the next stop" or whatever. This lie continues after every stop and to every person asking for the seat.

Some braver folk say "ok, I'll sit down until he/she arrives then!"

Obviously in your case so long as you give up the reserved but unused seat to somebody asking for it then no sweat.

 

[SS4]

Maybe they should do that with people who reserve seats for people who are not there by charging the full anytime single for each station that the train goes through which the seat is "reserved" but not occupied.

Nah, that's over the top. Every reservable service I've been on says something along the line of reserved, reserved from XXX or reserved to XXX (the latter being least common). Using BHM-EUS with Virgin as an example if I board at BHI and see a seat marked reserved (meaning for the journey) then, IMO, that seat is no longer reserved and it fair game.
Of course it may be the reservation holder went the shop/toilet in which case I'd move upon their return. This thread's problem seems to be more on un-reservable commuter services though.

Plus how do you charge someone who paid cash at the station?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I think Coolguy22468 means people who, when asked if the seat next to them is available, claim that their "friend is getting on at the next stop" or whatever. This lie continues after every stop and to every person asking for the seat.

Some braver folk say "ok, I'll sit down until he/she arrives then!"

Obviously in your case so long as you give up the reserved but unused seat to somebody asking for it then no sweat.

That would make more sense.

 

[Nym]

Plus how do you charge someone who paid cash at the station?

Cash, Card, Voucher, UPFN, PF or TIR

 

[chris89]

I have been quite lucky with that when having to sit down, as most the time reserved seat has not been taken etc.

Only once had to ask someone to move a bag then get evil stares most the Journey (Wolverhampton - Carlise when the person finially moved even though plenty of free seats from Preston)

I don't block people from sitting next to me as not bothered by it, instead they for some reason avoid sitting next to me, what i find funny/ odd even if they are standing they do.

Chris

 

[SS4]

Cash, Card, Voucher, UPFN, PF or TIR

True Perhaps a better question was how does one verify the identity of someone who paid in cash (especially taking into consideration the events of this thread)

 

[jon0844]

I book two tickets and two seat reservations for me and a friend. Unfortunately my friend is taken ill and can no longer travel. I take it then I should be charged extra as a result?

If you had both tickets then I guess you could have both seats, but not simply with two reservations. The second ticket might otherwise still be usable on another service, another seat on the same train or even refunded.

Of course, if you had a ticket for a bag - would you be asked to present it? If not, could you use it again? It's not as if the bag would put the ticket through a gate.

 

[wintonian]

If you had both tickets then I guess you could have both seats, but not simply with two reservations. The second ticket might otherwise still be usable on another service, another seat on the same train or even refunded.

Of course, if you had a ticket for a bag - would you be asked to present it? If not, could you use it again? It's not as if the bag would put the ticket through a gate.

Depends if you have paid the appropriate accompanied articles fee or not - I expect however the latter will be true.

 

[Jonny]

Cash, Card, Voucher, UPFN, PF or TIR

PF as in penalty fare - how come if they have a valid ticket for themselves?

Valid is a very broad term, meaning that a contract exists in the context of a ticket, if a ticket is valid for that train service then it is valid. If the contract has been breached, that does not change the fact that it existed in the first place.

 

[Searle]

I have once seen a woman give a male passenger 'the evil eye' when he asked to sit in the window seat next to her and then again when she had to move to allow him to leave the seat at his destination

people who do this really bug me. We have loads of them at uni, where they sit on the end of a lecture bench with loads of space in the middle, then seem to get all moody when people ask to get pass, and they refuse to move and make it really awkward. Just sit in the middle! :-x

 

[185]

Was on the 18:28 Newcastle-Kings X yesterday,the 17:58 had been cancelled so the train was busy,train manager kept calling for people to remove all bags from seats and threatening to charge passengers for any extra seats taken up by their bags.

One of my pet hates, I regularly announed that on the PA, but some selfish plonks still won't move them, even when the huge top racks are empty.

 

[newbie babs]

I was on a train from Derby that I caught to go to Sheffield. I normally don't bother looking for a seat I stay in the corridor its easier. There was an aisle seat and a window seat at a table but I didn't fancy asking this guy to move his lap top case so I got the aisle seat. He had most of the table with his papers as well.

Minutes later a pregnant woman appeared and asked him could she sit down and he said "no I am working", I got up and let her sit down but not before I slid my bag on his papers which fell off, accidentally of course.

I really don`t understand people who have two seats for themselves.

 

[142056]

Minutes later a pregnant woman appeared and asked him could she sit down and he said "no I am working", I got up and let her sit down but not before I slid my bag on his papers which fell off, accidentally of course.

I really don't understand people who have two seats for themselves.

Obviously too used to being in first class and having four seats to himself...

 

[ValleyLines142]

I was on a train from Derby that I caught to go to Sheffield. I normally don't bother looking for a seat I stay in the corridor its easier. There was an aisle seat and a window seat at a table but I didn't fancy asking this guy to move his lap top case so I got the aisle seat. He had most of the table with his papers as well.

Minutes later a pregnant woman appeared and asked him could she sit down and he said "no I am working", I got up and let her sit down but not before I slid my bag on his papers which fell off, accidentally of course.

I really don't understand people who have two seats for themselves.

Wow. That's a real bad scenario you've posted there. How on earth can anyone be so rude as to refuse a pregnant woman a seat? It's bad enough for a non-pregnant passenger let alone one with a baby due! Your example has really riled me! Just shows how selfish certain people can be. And it's a shame.

I refuse to put up with that. I kindly ask passengers to make way, or I'll get a member of staff involved. This happen regularly on the Cardiff to Bristol route. I will not accept having to pay £260 a month to travel when free seats are available and certain selfish individuals cannot be bothered to move.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Obviously too used to being in first class and having four seats to himself...

being a Northern Guard our services during rush hour are to say the least extremely busy and as we do not have seat reservations I refuse to let seat "hoggers" get away with their usual tactics and have been known to announce on the pa that there is a seat free (carriage and position) and if the person continues to refuse to remove his bags he WILL be charged full standard fare and explain to his fellow passengers why they are not as important as his bad/coat/suitcase. but I do use it as a last resort and on more than one occasion I have embarressed perfectly fit and able people into giving up their seat for a disabled/elderly/pregnant *delete as appropriate, person

 

[northernrailer]

last week i travelled from Manchester - New Street, i booked my tickets online and chose for a table / window seat. When i boarded a man was already sat in it with his laptop, news paper food and drink all over the table. So i said excuse i think thats my seat - no reply, so again i said your sat in my seat - he give me the death glare and muttered something. He moved round to other side of table so i shoved papers to his side along with his half eaten sandwich and drink and made sure my quarter of the table was MINE!! I really cant believe peoples ignorance. It actually turned out that yes seat 35 in carriage D was his seat but for a train 4hrs later, and you can imagine my smugness when he was charged a full fare single from Manchester to Birmingham - what goes around - comes around!!

 

[Coolguy22468]

Maybe they should ban certain people from using the trains who are known to seat hog.

 

[MCR247]

A bit far! Imagine what the daily mail would have to say

The railways already get enough stick in the media for perfectly fAir rules, so I wouldn't introduce unfair ones!

 

[district]

Maybe they should ban certain people from using the trains who are known to seat hog.

How would you enforce that?

 

[DiscoStu]

If a muslim woman used that excuse on me, I think I'd go mental.

It angers me so much when people use their religious beliefs (all of which are complete twaddle in my opinion, but that's for another thread on another site) for their own advantage, and think that just because they "feel it", everybody else has to respect it.

One ticket = one seat. End of discussion. If you don't like it, buy a car.

 

[Coolguy22468]

If a muslim woman used that excuse on me, I think I'd go mental.

It angers me so much when people use their religious beliefs (all of which are complete twaddle in my opinion, but that's for another thread on another site) for their own advantage, and think that just because they "feel it", everybody else has to respect it.

One ticket = one seat. End of discussion. If you don't like it, buy a car.

Totally true.

 

[TUC]

Maybe they should do that with people who reserve seats for people who are not there by charging the full anytime single for each station that the train goes through which the seat is "reserved" but not occupied.

I'm always puzzled when people stand even though there is an empty reserved seat for which the passenger hasn't turned up. I always make use of such seats as soon as the train has left the relevant station on the basis that I'll vacate it if the passenger turns up later. Often as well its simply that the passenger doesn't like the seat that has been reserved and is simply sitting elsewhere on the train.

 

[Squaddie]

If a muslim woman used that excuse on me, I think I'd go mental.

It angers me so much when people use their religious beliefs for their own advantage...

I don't think the OP (or any other contributor to this thread) has offered any convincing evidence that a specific segment of society is habitually refusing to have someone sit next to them on a train for religious reasons, and the direction this thread is taking is a little disturbing.

 

[Flamingo]

As I have said before, I will always announce on leaving Pad, or busy trains, that bags need to be moved, any seat that has a bag on it is available to sit on, that nobody's bag has bought a ticket, and if there are any issues, find the TM (me) and it will be sorted.

Sunday trains are the worst, and I always spend a large part of any journey just shifting bags or people who have decided to sleep across two seats. I annoy a lot of people with this, but I accept no excuses. I have never had anybody pulling the religion card on me, but the "I've paid for two tickets, my friend had not turned up so I'm using their seat" doesn't cut any ice. I would not charge somebody for the bags, I will move them - with or without the owners consent, as they are causing an obstruction in my opinion (and that's the only one that counts on my train!)