Passengers Stuck on Seaford - Brighton service for SIX hours

[pendolino]

Surely then it had power so all the cold/dark etc comments are wrong, or can somebody explain how a train (with no power) managed to weld itself to the con rail?

Maybe once the driver reported that the shoes were welded to the 3rd rail, the ECO isolated the power to prevent further damage to equipment or danger to traincrew/passengers? Or maybe the substation breakers tripped due to the current draw? Seems feasible to me.

 

[455driver]

Maybe once the driver reported that the shoes were welded to the 3rd rail, the ECO isolated the power to prevent further damage to equipment or danger to traincrew/passengers? Or maybe the substation breakers tripped due to the current draw? Seems feasible to me.

Once its welded itself there is no danger so why would they isolate it?

 

[Zoidberg]

Once its welded itself there is no danger so why would they isolate it?

Perhaps it's in the Rules - *rushes off to check* -

 

[455driver]

If there is no short and no issues with <deleted)s with torches self evacuating themselves the power will be left on.

 

[michael769]

My trains regularly have 600 people on them. Can anybody tell me where the extra freight car to store all this kit for 600 people is going to be placed within the set?

Space blankets can be folded so as to occupy a tiny amount of space, and they can available from manufacturers pre-folded and highly compressed. Our office has them in boxes of 2,500. The box of 2,500 is approx 1ftx1ftx2ft. Indeed the reason they are used in emergencies is because they are so compact and light in storage. You will not convince me that a train capable of carrying 600 people cannot accommodate a box of that size.

The urinal bottles are a different matter I would imagine, however you will not need 600 as most people will not require them. For example men will be able to utilize the out the door method with much less discomfort than most women form whom such a thing would be a highly degrading experience.

Whatever means of transport brought the fitters to the train to start cuting off the shoe could presumably have brought more. And yes if that mean having a few people tramping over fields with them then so be it, when women are being forced to degrade themselves in public I don't think any reasonable person with a little but of empathy would consider that an unreasonable thing to expect.

 

[dcsprior]

All those people who were stranded in cars last night up north-same thing, was an unfortunate series io events which inconvenienced people. They to were stranded for hours with no food, water, toilets unless they brought their own.

They were stranded because there was reportedly 1 foot of snow in 2 hours. Those conditions are not comparable to the conditions at Falmer.

I was caught up in Friday's snow when travelling by car, on our way for a weekend in Lake District - it wasn't the worst of the snow (pretty sure it wasn't a foot) but it still took us around four and half hours to cover the 20 miles from the M6(J36) to Waterhead, Ambleside.

We persevered and made it there in the car, though there was some pushing involved. However about half of the queue decided to abandon their car and walk instead, and I see that many people stuck on the M6 itself in Lancashire did the same.

It is illegal for pedestrians to be on a motorway, but everyone seems to recognise that in extreme times this rule can be broken - certainly no-one seems to advocate arresting people who've got out of their cars when stranded. Yet when the same thing happens on the railway, some people here don't seem to have the same understanding; indeed one post has hinted at charging them with trespass on the railway.

 

[tsr]

It is illegal for pedestrians to be on a motorway, but everyone seems to recognise that in extreme times this rule can be broken - certainly no-one seems to advocate arresting people who've got out of their cars when stranded. Yet when the same thing happens on the railway, some people here don't seem to have the same understanding; indeed one post has hinted at charging them with trespass on the railway.

Yes, pedestrians are forbidden from walking on the motorway in normal circumstances, but in many emergencies it is generally expected that drivers and passengers will, especially if the carriageway is blocked and/or people are taking actions for their own safety. Most people are also much more aware of road safety than line safety, and are more familiar with driving a road vehicle.

However, any (potentially) electrified railway where most people will be wholly unfamiliar with the many, many hazards is rather more dangerous than a motorway full of stranded vehicles at a standstill.

Out of interest, did you know, for example, that the Highways Agency are only permitted to travel at 20mph on the hard shoulder when adjacent vehicles are stationary, and, despite appearances, most emergency services' vehicles don't actually travel all that much faster, especially in bad weather? Rescue locomotives may be travelling faster and take longer to stop, plus the driver is less likely to expect pedestrians and will be unable to swerve to avoid them. Also, it is easier to seek refuge to the side of a motorway, whereas many railways have multiple "Limited Clearance" areas and the like, plus tougher surfaces to walk on and a great number of trip hazards.

 

[jon0844]

men will be able to utilize the out the door method with much less discomfort than most women form whom such a thing would be a highly degrading experience.

Depends on the time of day. I bet many 'ladies' on a late night train wouldn't have an issue with squatting down, after already having done so outside the kebab shop earlier...

 

[Tim R-T-C]

It is illegal for pedestrians to be on a motorway, but everyone seems to recognise that in extreme times this rule can be broken - certainly no-one seems to advocate arresting people who've got out of their cars when stranded. Yet when the same thing happens on the railway, some people here don't seem to have the same understanding; indeed one post has hinted at charging them with trespass on the railway.

Dare I say that if someone fell on an icy motorway they would not blame the highways agency. If someone fell on a railway line...

Ultimately they are a world apart. A motorway is flat and often lit. A railway is a myriad of unfamiliar hazards even in daylight.

 

[ushawk]

I've failed to understand? You're the one making a comparison between road and rail. By the way, the conditions around Wigan also affected rail, with a unit hitting the OHLE which had been brought down, and despite the conditions being so attrocious and the fact it was late at night they were still rescued in a lot less than 6 hours.

That's because a rescue was not able to happen at all because the OHLE was wrapped around the train !! It's a different scenario, the train stuck was a diesel too, so it wouldn't have even needed to be rescued, it couldn't move on as it hit the OHLE and got stuck in it - simple as that.

A rescue was able to happen for this incident, it just got delayed for far too long.

 

[Wath Yard]

Absolute nonsense.

I wasn't talking about the train, and who really cares about when the train was rescued? There were passengers on the service and they were rescued quite quickly by being transferred onto another train that was sent to rescue them. Which is exactly what could have happened, but didn't, in the Falmer incident.

 

[amcluesent]

There should be rules that say when normal rules are seperceded in an emergency or invoked when pax have been left stranded for > 120 minutes.

All to often now we see pax being put at risk as dithering and buck-passing is the order of the day. 'Lessons are learned' but each time it's another fiasco. 'Not bovverred' seems to be the mantra of far too many in the industry.

 

[Tomnick]

The 'normal' rules already cover emergency situations, so there's no need for additional ones. The Rules & Regs that we work to (for everyone's safety, rather than being 'not bovvered' - shortcuts and other deviations from the rules have caused many an accident in the past) would have allowed another train to approach on the same or the adjacent line to assist the failed train or remove the passengers. There's not much point trying to do the former if it's welded itself to the juice rail, and for some reason Control chose not to do the latter.

 

[A-driver]

There should be rules that say when normal rules are seperceded in an emergency or invoked when pax have been left stranded for > 120 minutes.

All to often now we see pax being put at risk as dithering and buck-passing is the order of the day. 'Lessons are learned' but each time it's another fiasco. 'Not bovverred' seems to be the mantra of far too many in the industry.

In what way were passengers put at risk please? Yes it was a bit cold but not dangerously cold. The heating had been on before power was apparently lost so a certain amount of heat would be retained for hours (I have prepped 313s in winter which have been cut out over night for over 6 hours and you would be surprised how much head can be retained in the coaches if all windows and doors are closed).

If any one onboard had a specific medical condition or was ill etc then the crew would have found out and dealt with it/let control know who would have sent an ambulance-air ambulance if the only option.

As for transferring passengers to another train-if the train had infact list power then chances are that a rescue train wouldn't be able to get there as it seems the 3rd rail was isolated. They couldn't use a 171 to rescue passengers as it dosnt have a nose end door to walk them through and the doors wouldn't line up properly to bridge across (which as far as I know still can't be done down south as network rail havnt signed that procedure off as safe yet-although that may have changed since I worked down there).

And if 1 train has already got stranded they arnt going to send another as chances are that will get stuck to.

 

[ushawk]

Maybe bridges between different types of trains should be looked at, as it would make rescues a lot easier.

 

[A-driver]

Maybe bridges between different types of trains should be looked at, as it would make rescues a lot easier.

It is possible at the moment and has been done in the past.

People seem to be forgetting here that they were actually organising a rescue, there were problems with it it seems which contributed to the delay but southerns control were not just sitting doing nothing or looking for ideas. They arnt going to send a unit alongside to bridge the units or walk people off the stranded train when a rescue unit/loco is en route at the time. At the time they didn't know it would take 6 hours, they obviously had problems getting the rescue unit there but as it was on the way they would only have looked at alternative solutions if it failed itself or it became apparent that the rescue unit plan would not work.

If after 3 hours of waiting for the rescue unit they decided to give up on that plan and come up with an alternative it may still take as long or longer to organise and implement.

It's all to easy to say now that it was a disaster and took too long to rescue the passengers but they certainly didn't sit there at the time and say 'leave them sat there without light, heat or toilets for 6 hours' did they?! Rescue moves like this can take a while and they can't say how long it will take until it is complete.

I have been in situations with failed units and know first hand how it is, the signaller tells you the plan, you pass this onto the passengers, it all seems dead straight forward but then there is a complication which holds things up and the delay ends up getting longer and longer.