Passengers bail from train near Wimbledon 2/10

[61653 HTAFC]

There used to be a guy in the 1970s and 1980s who stood in Oxford Street (always on the south side, I noticed, but varied from near Bond Street to nearer Charing Cross Road) and his beef (pun intended) was that protein was the cause of all life's ills, of which lust seemed the most repugnant to his eyes. Meat and nuts were listed among several others on a huge board he used to carry. He looked, come to think of it, like an older Jacob Rees-Mogg, so I wonder if the latter is a relative. I would say he was present on every weekday on the street for twenty years, possibly more. I don't recollect ever seeing anyone engaging him in conversation: he had leaflets with him, but, again, I never saw him giving them out or anyone requesting one.

There used to be a woman who'd be in Huddersfield every Saturday morning shouting things like "When we sin, we make our nation weak!" Homosexuals seemed to provoke most of her ire... Unfortunately it always sounded like she was shouting "When we sing, we make Carnation milk!" which rather took the edge off her message!

 

[farleigh]

Nothing but it wasn't the bird that was being referred to though but a derogatory term for a person with a mental health issue and that is offensive

I find your post offensive Elecman.

 

[daikilo]

I’m not condoning inappropriate egressing for a second but if people genuinely believed they were on crowded train with a religious extremist who might be about to detonate a suicide bomb, then that’s one of the very few situations where egressing is probably acceptable (even if that belief is later shown to be unfounded)! Especially given recent events in London and elsewhere around the world.

I suspect you would need to have been there first hand to appreciate the nature of the perceived threat, and no doubt a heard mentality set in once the doors had been opened.

Egressing onto tracks with a live rail is never a good idea, whether or not others are doing it.

 

[Joe Paxton]

It will be interesting to know whether those who panicked were WASP 'stiff upper lips' types or otherwise. Apparently the guard calmed him down and of course Mick Cash has jumped on that bandwagon quicker than a tweeting US president.

I wouldn't have expressed it like that (WASP is an American term), but something along those lines came to my mind.

 

[Bromley boy]

Egressing onto tracks with a live rail is never a good idea, whether or not others are doing it.

Generally, I agree it's a terrible idea.

But if you honestly believe you're within range of a suicide bomber about to detonate their device doesn't it become the least worst option?

 

[randyrippley]

I'm just surprised that no-one took the "preacher" down. Says something about the stupidity of the British public that they chose to brave the risks of the electric line rather than try to disable the perceived "terrorist".
Mind you, the whole episode just confirms the stupidity of the public...

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Generally, I agree it's a terrible idea.

But if you honestly believe you're within range of a suicide bomber about to detonate their device doesn't it become the least worst option?

Not really, unless you're on a 153 and can't get to the next carriage. Especially around Wimbledon where the lines are so busy that the chance of being hit by a train on an adjacent line would be considerably higher than at, say, Giggleswick. I guess if I wasn't an enthusiast I wouldn't give that aspect much thought though.

EDIT: The post below explains my thoughts better than I did. I need to go to bed!

 

[al78]

Generally, I agree it's a terrible idea.

But if you honestly believe you're within range of a suicide bomber about to detonate their device doesn't it become the least worst option?

Difficult to say without being in that situation. I might be inclined to move as far down the train away from the person as possible, I'm not sure I would immediately assume it was a suicide bomber. Logic would suggest that the probability of me meeting a terrorist about to detonate a bomb is so much smaller than it being someone wibbling on in their own world*, that the most likely best course of action is to stay on the train. The probability of detraining without authority, then stumbling and falling onto the third rail, or getting hit by a passing train, or twisting an ankle, is (I would estimate) significantly larger that being blown up by a terrorist. If I am wrong and I do get blown up, then that is my hard luck.

Ultimately, if you are going to live your life in fear, then it is one nil to terrorism. It is a fine line between being aware and over-reacting. You are far more likely to be killed from someone elses careless driving, yet I doubt there are many people refusing to use the road network whenever a 15 car pile up on a motorway is reported in the news.

*I have seen someone do this on a train, not religious, but a young adult being continuously very loud and obnoxious, and verbally abusing anyone who told him to shut up. He wasn't a terrorist, possibly someone who was mentally ill, I don't know. He eventually got off the train at Crawley (what a surprise ).

 

[TEW]

Given that it was about 0820 outside Wimbledon, moving down the train was probably not a realistic option. Certainly not for more than a handful of people, and not very quickly.

 

[goblinuser]

Is this some kind of joke? I find it hard to believe the version of events from twitter. Also the tone used by the SWR twitter staff seems overly sensational as if they are reporting on a sport or celebration - " **NEW** Due to customers exiting the train before it is at a platform at Wimbledon all lines are blocked."

 

[Antman]

I'm just surprised that no-one took the "preacher" down. Says something about the stupidity of the British public that they chose to brave the risks of the electric line rather than try to disable the perceived "terrorist".
Mind you, the whole episode just confirms the stupidity of the public...

So what would you suggest under the circumstances? Grapple with something who might have a bomb that they could detonate at any moment?

Stupidity? Oh the irony:roll:

 

[AlterEgo]

Is this some kind of joke? I find it hard to believe the version of events from twitter. Also the tone used by the SWR twitter staff seems overly sensational as if they are reporting on a sport or celebration - " **NEW** Due to customers exiting the train before it is at a platform at Wimbledon all lines are blocked."

That’s the standard format for reporting any incident. I really can’t see how they’ve sensationalised t at all - they gave the correct reason for the delay. What would you like them to have done instead?

 

[mpthomson]

I'm just surprised that no-one took the "preacher" down. Says something about the stupidity of the British public that they chose to brave the risks of the electric line rather than try to disable the perceived "terrorist".
.

Not really. Not at all in fact. Even trained soldiers/police wouldn't have 'tried to take the preacher down' in the way you suggest if they'd felt he had a suicide device that he might initiate if they did.

I have professional knowledge of how many of these devices are constructed (I've seen plenty of recovered vests and triggers) and it would have been a spectacularly stupid thing to do that would have likely endangered everyone in the vicinity.

 

[Antman]

Not really. Not at all in fact. Even trained soldiers/police wouldn't have 'tried to take the preacher down' in the way you suggest if they'd felt he had a suicide device that he might initiate if they did.

I have professional knowledge of how many of these devices are constructed (I've seen plenty of recovered vests and triggers) and it would have been a spectacularly stupid thing to do that would have likely endangered everyone in the vicinity.

Exactly, in a situation like that all you can do is get as far away as possible from the suspected bomber, which is exactly what happened.

 

[Bantamzen]

Its hard to know what to say about this incident without full knowledge of the facts. Things like how long was he reading out loud before the panic set in, what did he say, did anyone try to alert BTP or the TOC to report their concerns, what would have happened if the train had not be at a red aspect or due to stop at a station or if the train had been on a centre line of a four track section? Its so very hard to say if the passenger(s) involved in the initial panic overreacted, or were sensible in alerting others and trying to detrain. Its mentioned above that an attempt to "take them down" might instigate a potential suicide bomber into action, but conversely the same might be true if a panic to leave the area ensues.

I know in more recent times I have been more aware of people's behaviour on and around the rail network. There have been a couple of occasions I've found myself reaching for Northern's mobile app when people have been acting strangely (at least to myself) on their trains, but have always stopped myself concluding that they may just have mental health issues. In this day and age of poor care for people with serious problems, it is not unusual to see them gravitating towards public places.

I all honesty I think that either the BTP or TOC should have been contacted as soon as any concerns were raised, rather than panicking and rushing onto a live lineside. At least then if an evacuation were deemed the correct thing to do, it could have been done in a more controlled manner (well at least as controlled as you might expect). Yes it is easy to say when not directly faced with the situation, but even in a situation where danger may be perceived entering a state of blind panic often causes more problems than the situation itself (as sadly seen in India recently).

 

[158747]

Everything is offensive these days

Unfortunately there seems to be so many people these days who are easily offended, and even more who take offence on behalf of others even when the others are not offended themselves.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

I think everyone has become so thin skinned these days it's ridiculous, you can't crack a joke at work anymore because in case you get reported for offending someone.

This country really has become utterly pathetic.

 

[SAPhil]

There used to be a guy in the 1970s and 1980s who stood in Oxford Street (always on the south side, I noticed, but varied from near Bond Street to nearer Charing Cross Road) and his beef (pun intended) was that protein was the cause of all life's ills, of which lust seemed the most repugnant to his eyes. Meat and nuts were listed among several others on a huge board he used to carry. He looked, come to think of it, like an older Jacob Rees-Mogg, so I wonder if the latter is a relative. I would say he was present on every weekday on the street for twenty years, possibly more. I don't recollect ever seeing anyone engaging him in conversation: he had leaflets with him, but, again, I never saw him giving them out or anyone requesting one.

I once had a conversation of sorts with him about the quality of Selfridges' toilets when I was standing next to him in said facility

 

[EM2]

I think everyone has become so thin skinned these days it's ridiculous, you can't crack a joke at work anymore because in case you get reported for offending someone.

And not offending people is a bad thing, is it?

 

[Darandio]

Unfortunately there seems to be so many people these days who are easily offended, and even more who take offence on behalf of others even when the others are not offended themselves.

I find people who are offended on behalf of others offensive.

 

[al78]

I think everyone has become so thin skinned these days it's ridiculous, you can't crack a joke at work anymore because in case you get reported for offending someone.

This country really has become utterly pathetic.

Or perhaps people are becoming less tolerant of arrogant obnoxious gobsh*tes with no tact or sensitivity, which is great, since they are a damned pain in the backside. The more the civilized. retaliate against dick heads the better.

 

[dctraindriver]

I think everyone has become so thin skinned these days it's ridiculous, you can't crack a joke at work anymore because in case you get reported for offending someone.

This country really has become utterly pathetic.

Really? No we still have a laugh, best move depot

And no this country isn’t pathetic, a bloody pain some times and easy to believe some of the ****e said by others but still a great place to live.

 

[dctraindriver]

Or perhaps people are becoming less tolerant of arrogant obnoxious gobsh*tes with no tact or sensitivity, which is great, since they are a damned pain in the backside. The more the civilized. retaliate against dick heads the better.

Agreed

 

[Antman]

Or perhaps people are becoming less tolerant of arrogant obnoxious gobsh*tes with no tact or sensitivity, which is great, since they are a damned pain in the backside. The more the civilized. retaliate against dick heads the better.

Of course who qualifies for 'dick head' status is always going to be subjective, in many peoples eyes it's anybody who disagrees with their point of view:roll:

 

[CentralTrainer]

I find people who are offended on behalf of others offensive.

"Won't someone PLEASE think of the children..."

 

[dctraindriver]

Once again you're incorrect. You should check what the words you are criticising actually mean before casting aspersions and showing yourself up!

"Loon" also means "silly or foolish person", in addition to the national bird of Canada. Once again nothing to do with "mental health issues".

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/loon

You seem more interested in finding offence than adding anything to the topic of discussion on this thread.

Why is that?

I don’t think he’s showed himself up, let’s face it the conatation of loon is someone who is mad and has done for many years. I’m sure a few would consider the more detrimental meaning rather than “silly or foolish person”.

Like many on here I’ve seen some bad things due to mental health both personally and working life so I get where Elecman is coming from. It’s not nice to hear a close family member called nuts in a derogatory term, both for them or me.

Sorry to sound off.

 

[Bertie the bus]

And not offending people is a bad thing, is it?

Offending people can be a very good thing. Making a deliberately controversial and provocative statement can be an excellent way of getting across a serious point but these days will almost certainly get the social media idiots in a tiz. It also has the added bonus of winding up the professionally offended who are often too stupid and right on to understand that.

 

[Darandio]

It also has the added bonus of winding up the professionally offended who are often too stupid and right on to understand that.

Rumour has it that certain universities are considering setting up a two-year course for that.

 

[AlterEgo]

There’s no right not to be offended in life.

If you are offended by something, then you are offended. That’s that. It doesn’t give you special complaining rights, or the moral high ground, or a fiver off your next Tesco shop. Of course, we shouldn’t go around deliberately trying to cause offence, unless the situation warrants it.

Going back to the original complaint, “nutter” has a generally accepted meaning for a mad or stupid person, which does not necessarily invoke mental illness.

 

[Darandio]

Speaking of that profession and going further off topic, this is a good piece about those who get offended on behalf of others. Not particularly tasteful, but a good example, particularly these lines...

But when Georgiou was asked about her humiliation in front of the watching world by Madonna, she calmly replied: “Only I get to decide if I’m humiliated or not."

Regardless, the professionally offended continued to take offence on Georgiou’s behalf; up to and including being offended that Georgiou herself wasn’t offended.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/brian-boyd-the-narcissism-of-taking-offence-by-proxy-1.2583543