Passengers access intermediate cab via open door and take 'selfies'

[SPADTrap]

A train passenger who managed to get into an unlocked driver's cabin and pose for photos in front of the controls has claimed it's a 'good job I'm not a terrorist' because he could have caused 'sabotage'.
Aarron Lynch, 29, said he spotted the door to an operational cab in the rear carriage 'wide open' while travelling on a Southeastern service from Bexleyheath to Cannon Street in London on Friday.
The electrician, who was travelling with his girlfriend Jo, 27, ventured inside the cab where the pair had access to 'fiddle around with all the controls'.

Aarron Lynch, 29, said he spotted the door to an operational cab (pictured inside) in the rear carriage 'wide open' while travelling on a Southeastern service from Bexleyheath to Cannon Street in London on Friday.

Mr Lynch's girlfriend - 27-year-old teacher Jo (pictured) - also managed to gain entry to the driver's cab
He told MailOnline: 'It's a good job I'm not a terrorist. I could have pulled some sort of sabotage. 'I wouldn't like to be on a train and know that a member of the public could pull on the controls, as I could.'
Mr Lynch, from Bexleyheath in south London, noticed the door to the cab was open while in the London Bridge area but said he didn't touch the controls because he 'didn't want to crash the train'.
He said: 'I just wanted to stretch my legs so I got up and had a wander around the train and that's when I noticed the door was wide open.

'The cab was empty and the controls were all illuminated so I walked over and had a look.
'I had a little look around and got some pictures of me touching the controls.
'I had access to all of them but I didn't want to touch them because I didn't want to crash the train.'

Train driver cabs are supposed to be kept locked at all times following the 2004 Madrid bombings which killed 191 people.
Mr Lynch, who had been on a date with his teacher girlfriend, said the pair got off the train at London Bridge to find a member of staff to report the open cab.
Aarron Lynch films himself entering driver's cabin on train

Mr Lynch said the door to the cab was 'wide open' despite the fact they are to be kept locked at all times for security reasons. Pictured: Mr Lynch stands in the door to the driver's cab as the train arrives into London
He said: 'We had a fiddle around and made some videos in the cab but when we pulled into London Bridge I saw one of the station staff and highlighted to her that the door was wide open and I was concerned.
'She stopped the train momentarily and called another guy.
'They then got on the train and locked the door and then shortly after some British Transport Police officers came onto the train and I explained to them that I was able to get on and fiddle around.
'They said it was definitely a security issue. They seemed concerned.'
The train cab was then locked and Mr Lynch and his partner got back onto the train to head towards their intended destination of Cannon Street.
He said he raised the issue because he wanted to highlight the security concerns to Southeastern – which is now investigating the incident.
The train driver's cab (pictured) was at the rear of the Southeastern train and was not being used at the time

The train driver's cab (pictured) was at the rear of the Southeastern train and was not being used at the time
Mr Lynch said: 'It is a concern and I think it's good it's been highlighted.
'Luckily no incident occurred and I'm glad that Southeastern can now be aware and they can take security more seriously.'
Southeastern said the cab was at the rear of the train and was not being used at the time.
The rail firm said if any of the controls had been used they only would have alerted the driver at the front to stop the train - in the same way an emergency cord might be used.
A spokesman said the incident was being 'looked into' and added: 'These controls cannot be operated without a driver’s key – which was with the driver – but the door to this cab clearly should have been locked.'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...d-driver-s-cabin-posting-photos-controls.html

Sorry for the quote being a bit all over the place, large photos in the article make it difficult to copy and paste but usual DM caveats apply! :razz:

 

[bramling]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...d-driver-s-cabin-posting-photos-controls.html

Sorry for the quote being a bit all over the place, large photos in the article make it difficult to copy and paste!

A bit of a non-story.

Yes the door *should* have been closed and locked, but there's not a lot of danger one can cause in a cab if you don't hold the relevant keys, and if another cab is already keyed on at the time.

Depending on type of train, access to detonators, perhaps the risk of being able to open the driver's door whilst the train is moving, or causing an emergency brake application.

Identify who left the door open (or if there's a defect with the lock), issue suitable advice for the future, and leave it at that.

There is the risk someone could leave something malicious in there, but if I were a terrorist I'd be looking at obtaining the right key rather than chancing the off-chance I might find a door left open in error.

 

[Aldaniti]

A bit of a non-story.

Yes, the story is irrelevant. The 30 second advert shown in front of the video will help earn the Mail lots of lovely dosh.

 

[Deepgreen]

The story says he didn't want to touch the controls and then states that he took photos of himself...touching the controls!

 

[SPADTrap]

A bit of a non-story.

Yes the door *should* have been closed and locked, but there's not a lot of danger one can cause in a cab if you don't hold the relevant keys, and if another cab is already keyed on at the time.

Depending on type of train, access to detonators, perhaps the risk of being able to open the driver's door whilst the train is moving, or causing an emergency brake application.

Identify who left the door open (or if there's a defect with the lock), issue suitable advice for the future, and leave it at that.

There is the risk someone could leave something malicious in there, but if I were a terrorist I'd be looking at obtaining the right key rather than chancing the off-chance I might find a door left open in error.

I've found passengers in the back cab of my units before, often see them pulling open the door to the vestibule at stations then when I change ends I've found the door to the cab open when I know for certain it was locked. Keys are easily obtained on places like ebay, last year we were issued with a bulletin after a passenger keyed into (master key) an EMT unit and moved it in a platform.

Certainly a lot of wibble in that article, but should we be surprised! :razz:

 

[Scotty]

Mr Lynch, from Bexleyheath in south London, noticed the door to the cab was open while in the London Bridge area but said he didn't touch the controls because he 'didn't want to crash the train'.

'I had a little look around and got some pictures of me touching the controls.

So did he or didn't he?

 

[Clip]

The story says he didn't want to touch the controls and then states that he took photos of himself...touching the controls!

Indeed a strange statement

He said: 'We had a fiddle around and made some videos in the cab but when we pulled into London Bridge I saw one of the station staff and highlighted to her that the door was wide open and I was concerned.
'She stopped the train momentarily and called another guy.
'They then got on the train and locked the door and then shortly after some British Transport Police officers came onto the train and I explained to them that I was able to get on and fiddle around.

What?

 

[bradders1983]

So did he or didn't he?

Clearly he hovered his finger on buttons/levers without actually pressing them or pulling/pushing them, anyone can work that one out :roll:

 

[ComUtoR]

If anyone is interested. It's a 376. If you know the traction then you know that the door being locked really doesn't make the cab secure in any way.

Good to see that a teacher acted responsibly and simply closed the door rather than.. Oh wait..

 

[FordFocus]

Funny if the BTP got involved and charged them for tresspass. Might set an example.

See a door open, close it. Simple.

 

[Minilad]

 

[furlong]

Given all the fuss and the photographs, an example ought to be set and byelaw prosecutions considered:

10. Trains
...
(2) No person shall be in or on any train except the parts of it intended for use by that person.

 

[Via Bank]

Anecdote time: at a certain large university in London, there was an increasing problem with people leaving their laptops unattended briefly in the library (to go to the toilet or get coffee, etc.) only for them to be stolen.

The university's solution was for librarians to carry little business cards around with them, saying "next time it could be a thief!" Were they to see an unattended laptop as they went round the library on their duties, they would place one of these cards on top. The number of people leaving their laptops unattended dropped significantly after this policy was brought in.

Perhaps this is why the gentleman in question chose to take photographs of himself (an unauthorised member of the public) in the cab. If he'd just closed the door, no-one would have even known it was open in the first place. Now it has been reported, one hopes Southeastern's train crew will be more diligent about making sure the doors are locked properly.

True, he may not have been able to crash the train, but he could have stopped the train and caused significant disruption from the middle cab. And I'd definitely call that a security risk that needs reporting.

 

[LexyBoy]

claimed it's a 'good job I'm not a terrorist'

...heard as he's bundled into the back of the van, arrested without warrant under the Terrorism Act under suspicion of planning a terrorist act (entering the cab), photographing something which could be useful in terrorism (taking a photo), and glorifying terrorism (publishing the photo). Oh how we laughed.

 

[QueensCurve]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...d-driver-s-cabin-posting-photos-controls.html

Sorry for the quote being a bit all over the place, large photos in the article make it difficult to copy and paste but usual DM caveats apply! :razz:

These stories get a lot of currency as they are part of the hype of terrorist threats deemed to require more "security".
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Of course the mountain used to be a molehill, as all mountains were once molehills.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Given all the fuss and the photographs, an example ought to be set and byelaw prosecutions considered:

But the parts of the train in which persons may enter seem needlessly to be getting smaller.

I travelled in the DRS Mk2f stock operated by Northern on the Cumbrian coast last week. The corridor in in the Brake part of the BSO had a notice forbidding entry to unauthorsed persons. This accessed what would previously have been public doors and potentially the corridor into the next coach.

 

[GB]

Clearly he hovered his finger on buttons/levers without actually pressing them or pulling/pushing them, anyone can work that one out :roll:

Well thats not what it says in the article is it:roll:

 

[SPADTrap]

Anecdote time: at a certain large university in London, there was an increasing problem with people leaving their laptops unattended briefly in the library (to go to the toilet or get coffee, etc.) only for them to be stolen.

The university's solution was for librarians to carry little business cards around with them, saying "next time it could be a thief!" Were they to see an unattended laptop as they went round the library on their duties, they would place one of these cards on top. The number of people leaving their laptops unattended dropped significantly after this policy was brought in.

Perhaps this is why the gentleman in question chose to take photographs of himself (an unauthorised member of the public) in the cab. If he'd just closed the door, no-one would have even known it was open in the first place. Now it has been reported, one hopes Southeastern's train crew will be more diligent about making sure the doors are locked properly.

True, he may not have been able to crash the train, but he could have stopped the train and caused significant disruption from the middle cab. And I'd definitely call that a security risk that needs reporting.

But that doesn't involve breaking the rules to make that point, but I was subject to exactly that and found it to be a very clever and thoughtful way to get students attention!

 

[Bodiddly]

Utter, utter tosh! The Daily Mail is nothing more than loo roll!
So with this guy's reckoning, if you see a door open it's fair game to enter and take selfies?
Wonder if he's tried that one in the street where he lives?:roll:

 

[Haydn1971]

Hopefully a knock at his door by the transport police today for unauthorised access to the cab - what's the fine ?

 

[A-driver]

Absolute exaggeration regarding controls as obviously none are live apart from the e brake. But obviously doors should be locked for security and to prevent things like detonators being nicked. But it wasn't fully closed so opened. Hardly end of the world. Certainly not newsworthy!

 

[ComUtoR]

obviously none are live apart from the e-brake

Um, er... I can mention a few things that are rather exposed. I don't think anything could be considered dangerous and most will just bring the train to a stand.

 

[A-driver]

Um, er... I can mention a few things that are rather exposed. I don't think anything could be considered dangerous and most will just bring the train to a stand.

Without a key in there is very little you can do part from stop the train was my point. You certainly couldn't crash it.

 

[Via Bank]

But that doesn't involve breaking the rules to make that point, but I was subject to exactly that and found it to be a very clever and thoughtful way to get students attention!

But would people have listened to him had the problem not been demonstrated? Given my own experiences with some SE frontline staff,* possibly not.

In my industry we call this white-hat penetration testing, where a technically minded member of the public advises the people in charge of a website or publicly-accessible system of a security flaw. Often, they need to demonstrate the flaw to get the people in charge to listen and get it patched.

There have been cases of white-hat hackers being legally threatened or prosecuted by the companies they have tried to assist. This generally results in a PR disaster.

Not saying that MailOnline is exactly a bastion of good journalism, and hopefully the door being left open is a one-off. But if it is more prevalent, it clearly needs to be dealt with.

* Yes I know SE has some good staff and some bad staff. Yes this is true of any TOC.

 

[ComUtoR]

My reply in bold.

There are a few other things in the cab that you may have overlooked. One I am not sure is enabled from a middle cab and its something I rarely do so not tried with a key on the front.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

But if it is more prevalent, it clearly needs to be dealt with.

Even when locked it is not secure. There is also a matter of something internal which cannot be mentioned.

It was a minor incident and most likely totally accidental from whomever left the door open. If it was remotely serious I would of had and email by now.

It really is a molehill.

 

[Fincra5]

Really not much you can do in the cab with no key on... as people said, the Emergency Brake, change the lights, fiddle with the aircon, play with the wipers and hit the emergency stop button.

Anyone with a BR1 key can do it. But yes it should be kept shut.

Same the teacher didn't have their sensible head on and just shut the door...

 

[ainsworth74]

Without a key in there is very little you can do part from stop the train was my point. You certainly couldn't crash it.

Yes but that doesn't make such a good headline or story!

 

[ComUtoR]

Really not much you can do in the cab with no key on... as people said, the Emergency Brake, change the lights, fiddle with the aircon, play with the wipers and hit the emergency stop button.

Anyone with a BR1 key can do it. But yes it should be kept shut.

Don't need a BR1 key
There are other things in the cab that can be accessed.
Aircon requires the key
Lights require the key (sort of)

 

[SPADTrap]

But would people have listened to him had the problem not been demonstrated? Given my own experiences with some SE frontline staff,* possibly not.

Given that the cab door was closed by the dispatcher I'd wager that yes they would have listened, they did listen.

 

[jon0844]

I actually don't think the person who notified staff and took some photos for fun did anything wrong, besides going to the press and talking crap about terrorism.

However, I'd wager that the Daily Mail put words into his mouth to make the story sexier. If he refused to go along with that, they'd likely not print it.

It is a non story for the press, but I think it was right to tell rail staff rather than simply close it (especially if the door didn't actually lock properly, which is why it was open in the first place).

 

[LowLevel]

These stories get a lot of currency as they are part of the hype of terrorist threats deemed to require more "security".
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Of course the mountain used to be a molehill, as all mountains were once molehills.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


But the parts of the train in which persons may enter seem needlessly to be getting smaller.

I travelled in the DRS Mk2f stock operated by Northern on the Cumbrian coast last week. The corridor in in the Brake part of the BSO had a notice forbidding entry to unauthorsed persons. This accessed what would previously have been public doors and potentially the corridor into the next coach.

The Cumbrian Coast stock is like that because the drop lights in the brake van don't have bars on the windows, which are required to prevent decapitations on this particularly route, hence an area of no use or interest to the general public with the brakes formed as they are is out of bounds.