Passenger vs Freight

[tone]

What are the main differences between driving freight and passenger trains?
I gather some of the freight services run much later at night or start much earlier, that's about all I know so far.

Do freight services run to a strict timetable, or is it more a case of "get it up some time this afternoon"?

Are there more routes to learn? Do you need to know how to deal with lot of different types of cargo or does someone else worry about that and let you crack on with the driving. Do freight drivers do longer routes which means a lot of hotel nights, or do the companies try to involve more train hand overs to avoid hotel bills?

Is it nice to not have to deal with passengers on a freight service or do passenger drivers not worry about them anyway.

discuss!

 

[Beveridges]

Are there more routes to learn?

Freight Drivers learn far more routes than passenger. FAR more. For example, I've said it before & I'll say it again, a newly passed out driver for my TOC (Northern) only signs 3-5 routes, mostly short local routes.
A Freight Driver will quickly sign about half of the country in comparison. Freight drivers do not have to know the route to the same level of detail as passenger drivers before being allowed to sign it.

Theres plenty of other differences. Passenger drivers for local TOC's often get more repetetive "all shacks" stopping work, freight drivers will normally just have signals and speeds to think about rather than stations, freight drivers also spend more time in yards and carry out a lot more shunting. Freight has worse shifts and often worse traction in the form of class 66's which are apparantly worse than anything except a 142.

Is it nice to not have to deal with passengers on a freight service or do passenger drivers not worry about them anyway.

Speaking from an empty stock driver it is very nice not to have passengers, and I think most Drivers in my TOC would agree its better when you do not have passengers. A lot of passengers come to your cab window and say things just to wind you up, from school kids to **** heads. Thats why a lot of Drivers will close the cab window on approaching a station if "undesirable" types are spotted, but they can still get at you when your changing ends at the end of the line.
It is not just about dealing with undesirable types, on some types of stock you can clearly hear the awful racket the **** heads are making at night from the cab, and a lot of drivers don't like passengers starring into their cabs, which they often do when queing up to board a small unit like a 142... Then theres some stock which has toilets near the cabs, very unpleasant if one of the passengers happens to block it up. Its not just dealing with them, its the fact that they can make for an unpleasant atmosphere at the worst of times.
The positive side to having passengers is the job satisfaction you may get when they ask you a question and you can answer it.

 

[TDK]

The positive side to having passengers is the job satisfaction you may get when they ask you a question and you can answer it.

Also better shifts, knowing what you are doing well in advance, knowing your rest day pattern, clean cabs, more sociable shifts, a life, no heavy work, not going deaf, air con in cabs, doing more than 75mph, seeing the family more often, your kids know your name etc. etc. No comparison to be fair all depending on what you want, passenger work is by far the easiest on you. If you are a spotter and like big diesel engines and want to have an unsociable life then freight will be your thing, 80% of DRS drivers are enthusiasts but hey if that is your thing go for it.

 

[GB]

Freight drivers do not have to know the route to the same level of detail as passenger drivers before being allowed to sign it.
.

In what way?

The only thing I can think off that a freight driver is not required to know is (if the route has them) CSR change over locations and carriage sidings.

 

[Beveridges]

The only thing I can think off that a freight driver is not required to know is (if the route has them) CSR change over locations and carriage sidings.

They do not have to memorise the approach to each individual station and know the "braking zones" for stations. Passenger DTM's also tend to go a lot more in-depth on route pass outs than freight, from what I heard speaking to a pass driver whos ex freight. They want to know everything.
A Qualified Northern Driver said it took him 3 weeks to pass out on a 40 mile route. How many miles of route could a freight driver potentially pass out on after 3 weeks of road learning? I bet if someone could answer my question, it will be many, many times more than 40 miles.

 

[GB]

I do not want to turn this into a pi33ing contest re freight vs passenger, but...

They do not have to memorise the approach to each individual station and know the "braking zones" for stations.

Fair enough about stations, but there are other braking zones they do need to know.

Passenger DTM's also tend to go a lot more in-depth on route pass outs than freight, from what I heard speaking to a pass driver whos ex freight. They want to know everything.

That is simply balls. You cannot take what one person has said and then apply it to all geographical areas of each different company. Try coming to out lot and see how far only knowing the basics gets you!

It takes a Qualified Northern Driver 3 weeks to pass out on a 40 mile route. How many miles of route could a freight driver potentially pass out on after 3 weeks of road learning? I bet if someone could answer my question, it will be many, many times more than 40 miles.

That is an impossible question to answer other than to say there is more to route learning than just the mileage. It takes as long as it takes.

But too put things into basic perspective, one of our routes is about 98 miles in length and it can take a trainee up to of 2 months to learn (not including practical handling). Not a great deal of difference.

 

[Spaceflower]

Freight Drivers learn far more routes than passenger. FAR more. For example, I've said it before & I'll say it again, a newly passed out driver for my TOC (Northern) only signs 3-5 routes, mostly short local routes.
A Freight Driver will quickly sign about half of the country in comparison. Freight drivers do not have to know the route to the same level of detail as passenger drivers before being allowed to sign it.

Theres plenty of other differences. Passenger drivers for local TOC's often get more repetetive "all shacks" stopping work, freight drivers will normally just have signals and speeds to think about rather than stations, freight drivers also spend more time in yards and carry out a lot more shunting. Freight is a lot less monotonous by a very long way, but has worse shifts and often worse traction in the form of class 66's which are apparantly worse than anything except a 142.



Speaking from an empty stock driver it is very nice not to have passengers, and I think most Drivers in my TOC would agree its better when you do not have passengers. A lot of passengers come to your cab window and say things just to wind you up, from school kids to **** heads. Thats why a lot of Drivers will close the cab window on approaching a station if "undesirable" types are spotted, but they can still get at you when your changing ends at the end of the line.
It is not just about dealing with undesirable types, on some types of stock you can clearly hear the awful racket the **** heads are making at night from the cab, and a lot of drivers don't like passengers starring into their cabs, which they often do when queing up to board a small unit like a 142... Then theres some stock which has toilets near the cabs, very unpleasant if one of the passengers happens to block it up. Its not just dealing with them, its the fact that they can make for an unpleasant atmosphere at the worst of times.
The positive side to having passengers is the job satisfaction you may get when they ask you a question and you can answer it.

grr, mops keep back +

 

[Beveridges]

But too put things into basic perspective, one of our routes is about 98 miles in length and it can take a trainee up to of 2 months to learn (not including practical handling). Not a great deal of difference.

Depots are different as they are much more complex, higher risk areas, so take a rediculous amount of time to learn for their size before being able to perform full MDD duties. Though mainline drivers do not need anywhere near as much training to sign a Maintenance Depot as all they have to know is how to take units on and off.
Now as for pass drivers - one of them who took a unit off my depot the other morning said he's not even signed 98 miles if you put all the routes signed together after doing his 240-hours practical handling, which actually extended to nearly 300 hrs!!!



MOPS GET BACK - Whats thats supposed to mean and jesus christ what an intelligent reply you make.

That is simply balls. You cannot take what one person has said and then apply it to all geographical areas of each different company. Try coming to out lot and see how far only knowing the basics gets you!

You have your point - Many F/TOC's are different which can be why some parts of som posts occasionally conflict with others on here with members posting from all different F/TOCs/areas of the country.

 

[driver9000]

I would expect the route knowledge of passenger driver and a freight driver to be broadly the same. I certainly wouldn't say a freight driver has a lesser knowledge of a road over a passenger driver. Where the difference lie is in how the trains are handled over a route, a driver working a local passenger train would be more familiar with stopping at stations than a driver working a freight train along the same route. I bet the freight driver could stop at the stations if need be though. I wouldn't want to comment on the knowledge requirements of a freight driver as I'm not a freight driver, I'm a passenger driver so I'm only familiar with what is required of me in terms of route knowledge.

There is a lot of factors that go into deciding how long it will take to learn a route - not just mileage (mileage counts both ways as you will work both ways). When I learn a route I am given a minimum number of trips to do rather than a length of time in general though it amounts to a couple of weeks taking rest days and service frequency into account. Even taking into account the extra number of trips required by a trainee, I haven't known one take 2 months to learn a route. The time is taken up with acquiring their handling hours which can make it look like the route learning time is extended.

Beveridges - The mileage for a new driver signing core routes only at your nearest depot comes to 81 miles assuming you would only measure a route in one direction or 162 counting both directions. Personally I count each direction separately and this doesn't include their knowledge of the sidings and all possible shunting moves on the core routes which they also have to know.

For me passenger trains offer a more stable roster to enable me to plan time with my family and friends plus I know I will be home every night. Being with a freight company would involve working nights, lodging and sitting in engineering possessions.

 

[Beveridges]

I bet the freight driver could stop at the stations if need be though

I doubt a freight driver would consistantly be able to do it as efficiently as a passenger driver has to. A fright driver would probably have to slow down and coast a lot more on approach to the station due to unfamiliarity of stopping there and not knowing the ideal "braking zones", while a pass driver could go tearing into every station in 1 brake application and stop at the right place even though they probably wouldn't as it is a risk to their job.

I know this for a fact - in MDD Driving we have braking zones, markers, etc. for some of our funny moves like putting half-units back together & propelling swingers down grdients, and if you aren't familiar with them - your not going to be able to do it in one consistant brake application unless you get lucky!!!!!!




Mods delete this is going beyond what is a sensible discussion.

 

[plastictaffy]

There's a guy in one of the depots with my TOC who used to work freight along the same route - and a bit more besides. He says he had to do a route refresher when he joined, but still knew most of the landmarks, tunnels, junctions etc etc. These will be the exact same landmarks a Passenger driver will use when it comes to braking distances.
Passenger driver:-
"I know when I see see the Dog and Duck over the other side of the Fast Lines, I need to brake there to stop at the station"

Freight driver:-
"When I see the Dog and Duck over the other side, I know I need to brake there for the change in line speed limit near where the entrance to the carriage sidings is......"

Route learning is all about landmarks and features. What those features mean will depend on what you use it for.
For me, when I see the builder's yard on my right, that's my point to make a "We will shortly be calling at......." announcement. For the driver, it means if he is travelling at line speed, a, say, 50% brake application will stop him exactly where he needs to be........

 

[TDK]

I while a pass driver could go tearing into every station and stop at the right place.

So wrong and I glad you put could, I suppose at 5mph they could!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I certainly wouldn't say a freight driver has a lesser knowledge of a road over a passenger driver. Where the difference lie is in how the trains are handled over a route, a driver working a local passenger train would be more familiar with stopping at stations than a driver working a freight train along the same route. I bet the freight driver could stop at the stations if need be though. I wouldn't want to comment on the knowledge requirements of a freight driver as I'm not a freight driver, I'm a passenger driver so I'm only familiar with what is required of me in terms of route knowledge.

There is a lot of factors that go into deciding how long it will take to learn a route - not just mileage (mileage counts both ways as you will work both ways).

The factors that go in to a route assessment are the risks of the route and the risk assessment does include the route length. Every question you are asked is based on risk and the route is assessed by a manager on it's risk content then the questions are formed around the risk. A freight driver should know all the ststion names on the route for location purposes, it is only the handling assessment over the route for a freight driver that is different as 90% of the risks on the route are for all trains, for example, more than a 30% reduction in line speed is a risk, areas where bi-directional working is used, listed low adhesion areas, gradients on approach to stop signals etc etc, all these need to be known by freight and Passenger drivers, freight drivers need to also know the differential speeds when for passenger drivers it is a nice to know and not a need to know. Only someone who has worked both freight and passenger work can really comment on this accrurately and to be honest many members on this forum guess what is correct or opinionise what they think is right and in fact are totally wrong on their ideas! No problems with that of course but it does get a bit boring sometimes - Not directed at you "driver9000" as you are actually in the grade!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Route learning is all about landmarks and features. What those features mean will depend on what you use it for.
For me, when I see the builder's yard on my right, that's my point to make a "We will shortly be calling at......." announcement. For the driver, it means if he is travelling at line speed, a, say, 50% brake application will stop him exactly where he needs to be........

Route learning is all about route risk, you need to know the risks of the route. The route handling is about the location and areas of lets say interest, braking areas etc. Whether or not this is the correct method of assessment is another topic.

 

[Legzr1]

Beveridges,

When are you going to learn it's not right when someone who isn't qualified,trained or has experience of freight OR passenger work spouts inaccuracies that some on here read as fact?

When I have a little more time I'll post more and explain where you're off the mark,wrongly advised or just plain talking rubbish.

 

[Beveridges]

I suppose at 5mph they could

When shifting a "swinger" type unit it takes a very long time to stop even when braking from 5mph if the swinger is a lot heavier than the braking unit especially on the downhill gradient on the south end of Newton Heath.


MODS DELETE

This is going beyond a discussion but actually turning into an insult war / superiority contest between MDD vs Mainline

 

[TDK]

Even on Maintenance Depot Driving we use braking zones. When shifting a "swinger" type unit it takes a very long time to stop even when braking from 5mph if the swinger is a lot heavier than the braking unit especially on the downhill gradient on the south end of Newton Heath.

But you wouldn't go charging up to buffers and stop 6 foot short with one application unless you are a twit. I have done depot work before and it does take a lot of skill and time constraints are a bind. The point I was trying to make is that passenger drivers could race into stations but they don't unless they are stupid and want to lose their jobs, it's the same as a freight driver racing up to a red, they could but don't as they value their jobs.

 

[GB]

I doubt a freight driver would consistantly be able to do it as efficiently as a passenger driver has to. A fright driver would probably have to slow down and coast a lot more on approach to the station due to unfamiliarity of stopping there and not knowing the ideal "braking zones", while a pass driver could go tearing into every station and stop at the right place.

I'm starting to get the feeling you know nothing or very little about freight driving!

 

[Legzr1]

Freight Drivers learn far more routes than passenger. FAR more. For example, I've said it before & I'll say it again, a newly passed out driver for my TOC (Northern) only signs 3-5 routes, mostly short local routes.

That maybe so for YOUR TOC but the world doesn't start and end at Northerns borders.

There are EC drivers at Newcastle who sign KX to Aberdeen,Carlisle via Tyne Valley,Donaster-York via Askern/Milford/Colton,Newcastle-Northallerton via Durham Coast/Yarm/Picton Branch just as there are FlIM drivers who sign Leeds-Peterborough and nowhere else!

Freight drivers do not have to know the route to the same level of detail as passenger drivers before being allowed to sign it.

That one sentence proves you know next to nothing about the subject.

All large FOC's have the same Group Standards and Safety Cases that any operator on NR needs to adhere to.
Unannounced audits ensure these requirements are taken seriously.

Passenger drivers need to stop for stations - freight drivers need to stop for points into loops and yards,they need to know gradients to the nth degree especially with trailing weights approaching 3000 tonnes.

The route knowledge for either job needs to be equally as good.
That's why I say any monkey can 'operate' a train - only an experienced driver can actually 'drive' a train.

No amount of listening to tittle-tattle will ever replace experience.

freight drivers also spend more time in yards and carry out a lot more shunting.

Totally depends on the company (and even the location within that company).

DBS are recruiting Depot Operators to cover shunting freeing up mainline drivers to do the distance work - in that case a TOC driver will do far more shunting simply taking a set to depot than any of the mainline drivers at locations where DO's are used.

Freight has worse shifts

No.

SOME freight can have 'worse' shifts than SOME TOC's.

The shifts at certain IM depots are 95% dayshift starting around 0800 and finishing around 2100 with various shift lenghts.
FTPE operate almost around the clock to Man Airport.
EC services can start around 0400 (bringing set from depot) and finish after 0200.
Cross Country is very similar.

Not quite as black/white as you state is it?

and often worse traction in the form of class 66's which are apparantly worse than anything except a 142.

You use the word 'apparently'.
I take it you aren't passed out on the traction and have precisely zero experience of them?

The Cl66 isn't without fault but i'll let you in on a little secret:

They are FAR FAR better than the old relics they replaced.
Excellent reliability,modern ergonomics,comfortable seating,enough power and tractive effort to totally wipe the floor with anything fitted with a marine engine,software and hardware to pull a weight that would see 2X37's struggling and slipping to a stand.

There is a reason you only see 31,37,47,56 etc used on 'pretend' railways and fly-by-night FOC operators.

Can you guess the reason?

Speaking from an empty stock driver it is very nice not to have passengers, and I think most Drivers in my TOC would agree its better when you do not have passengers.

In other words,you've driven empty coaching stock but nothing else.
You then use flippant remarks from others to form a definitive opinion.

I can spot a tiny flaw in your plan...

The positive side to having passengers is the job satisfaction you may get when they ask you a question and you can answer it.

That.
And the fact that without them you wouldn't have a job!

Even on Maintenance Depot Driving we use braking zones. When shifting a "swinger" type unit it takes a very long time to stop even when braking from 5mph if the swinger is a lot heavier than the braking unit especially on the downhill gradient on the south end of Newton Heath.

Seriously mate,there is NO comparison.

 

[Beveridges]

That one sentence proves you know next to nothing about the subject.

All large FOC's have the same Group Standards and Safety Cases that any operator on NR needs to adhere to.
Unannounced audits ensure these requirements are taken seriously.

Passenger drivers need to stop for stations - freight drivers need to stop for points into loops and yards,they need to know gradients to the nth degree especially with trailing weights approaching 3000 tonnes.

I am not stating anything as fact that I've heard off other drivers. I posted that "I heard" off an ex-freight driver that he had to know more about the routes when he moved to passenger, rather than stating it as fact.

Now going off whats been posted since, its clear that its not always the case.

I'm not interesting in being rude or slagging each other off, which you intend on doing and probably is the reason you got suspended from these forums a couple of months ago after I put a complaint in to the mods.

Excellent reliability,modern ergonomics,comfortable seating,enough power and tractive effort to totally wipe the floor with anything fitted with a marine engine,software and hardware to pull a weight that would see 2X37's struggling and slipping to a stand.

A pair of 37s can haul more than a 66 for christs sake. A pair has much more tractive effort than a 59, 60, 70 or 92, never mind a 66.
We can argue about this forever but those must be a very knackered, underperforming example of 2X37's if they can get out-hauled by a single 66. Seeing as they are 50 years old its quite believable that some of them do not perform like new anymore. Even the old units that I drive - built in the 1980's - don't all perform the same. Some have a lot more power in them than others, even examples from the same class. Some of our units will pull a "swinger" 156 up the gradient with ease, some will struggle a bit more. If they last another 20 years they certainly will perform nowhere near like new.
The Trainload sectors used to use 2X 37 on some extremely heavy trains, including iron ore, steel and petroleum. Some of them reaching 3000 tonnes.
The fewer remaining trains of today that are that heavy tend to not use 66's as they don't have the tractive effort for them. The 66 was only ever a 56 replacement in my view. Nothing more, nothing less.

You use the word 'apparently'.
I take it you aren't passed out on the traction and have precisely zero experience of them?

My original post regarding 66's was simply stating that *I heard* off other drivers that 66's are worse to drive than a lot of other forms of traction including 153s which I know from experience are damn awful. If you want to disagree then no problem but no need to get into a slagging match or I'll just report it to the mods again. I never even mentioned how 66's compare to 50-year old traction maybe that was on another forum so why bring it up here. I really couldn't give a f--k what they are like to be honest.

In other words,you've driven empty coaching stock but nothing else.
You then use flippant remarks from others to form a definitive opinion.

I can spot a tiny flaw in your plan...

I've worked with passengers before on platforms... I've worked with them when front ending on the mainline. It's better without passengers, on empty stock. My reasons are all mentioned in my post and I've encountered all of that on various cab rides. It's not all going off what I've head off "flippant remarks from others". They make some rides very unpleasurable - try a Saturday night cab ride on a 142 on the last service to anywhere!
Think I can form an opinion on this subject.

That.
And the fact that without them you wouldn't have a job!

And exactly why I like the fact that I'm on empty stock all the time - you get the one real positive side of the passengers, while keeping well away from them at the same time.

When are you going to learn it's not right when someone who isn't qualified,trained or has experience of freight OR passenger work spouts inaccuracies that some on here read as fact?

So is it now banned on the forum for a driver to say anything about a form of driving that they have no experience of?
So a mainline driver should not be allowed to say anything about Maintenance depot driving, a freight driver should not be allowed to talk about passenger driving and vice versa??
This forum would really have hardly any posts on it then would it?
You can know a bit about what you've not experienced through research or speaking to others who have done it.

 

[TDK]

Even the old units that I drive - built in the 1980's - don't all perform the same. Some have a lot more power in them than others, even examples from the same class. Some of our units will pull a "swinger" 156 up the gradient with ease, some will struggle a bit more.

That is purley down to maintenence

 

[GB]

I am not stating anything as fact that I've heard off other drivers. I posted that "I heard" off an ex-freight driver that he had to know more about the routes when he moved to passenger, rather than stating it as fact.

Well no not really, what you actually posted in your first post was "Freight drivers do not have to know the route to the same level of detail as passenger drivers before being allowed to sign it." To me that sounds like its posted as a matter of fact. Perhaps you didn't mean it to read like that but thats how it comes across.

You have then gone onto to post inaccuracies and assumptions about freight drivers passing out and their ability to do certain tasks efficiently (amongst other things).

 

[Beveridges]

yes I've got no experience of working for freight companies so shouldnt have worded it like that but I have done a lot of research into freight as it *was* the job I used to be interested in going for. Not any more - the more I found out about it the less it appealed. Thats why I have some knowledge about it but even though some of what I say may be correct in some cases, there will always be exceptions as it varies so much at different companies and depots.

There is a reason you only see 31,37,47,56 etc used on 'pretend' railways and fly-by-night FOC operators.

Can you guess the reason?

So which of DRS, NETWORK RAIL, WCRC, COLAS, GBRF and EWS (using 37s until DB took over), are "pretend" railways or fly-by-night FOC operators???

 

[plastictaffy]

Jeez, talk about a difference in opinion. Beveridges - I think you will find that legzr1 is just voicing a slightly more educated opinion!!! In his/her opinion the 66 is better at humping freight all over the UK than a pair of 37's, and that's fair enough, in fact, I would say I agree.
But for noise and soul?? Anything EXCEPT a Shed gets my vote, sorry, but again, it's just an opinion.
Now, your comment about the pair of 37's - lets look into that. So a single 37 puts out, what, 1750HP?? So a pair put out, say, 3500?? A single 66 will put pump out 3,300 or so. Let us also not forget that the 66 is built abroad, using far more modern manufacturing techniques than anything BR managed, ever. It also uses pretty advanced Microprocessors that control the distribution of the power that is produced to the wheels, making sure that whichever wheel is most able to use the power, gets it.
I believe the system is something similar to the SepEx system that BR employed on the 58's...........
Let's also look at something else. One 66 weighs 127 tonnes. Two 37's weigh in at give or take, 200 tonnes - for almost exactly the same BHP?? Less weight equals less wear on the track, doesn't it??
I might not like the 66 any more than the next enthusiast, but it's damned good at doing what it was conceived to do. I imagine it to be a lot comfier for the driver - for a start he doesn't have to crick his neck to look over the nose all the while. Most of the drivers I see driving 66's coming past my depot all look really rather comfortable - ever seen a driver on a 37??

 

[Beveridges]

Jeez, talk about a difference in opinion. Beveridges - I think you will find that legzr1 is just voicing a slightly more educated opinion!!!

Regardless of who is more educated on the subject being discussed, you can still give your own opinion. My views are an opinion, and legzr1 views are another opinion. But I have no respect for him so don't take any of his comments on board. I think he has the typical "I have been on for many years, so I will put you down" type attitude and I have come across many like that on the railway and to be honest they are usually the type of person the railway is better off without.

But for noise and soul?? Anything EXCEPT a Shed gets my vote, sorry, but again, it's just an opinion.

Even a 142 sounds better.

Less weight equals less wear on the track, doesn't it??

It's the axle weight that puts the most wear on the track so even though 2x 37's are slightly heavier, they have more axles.
Outside of that I do not have any more comments to make as I really could not care less about 66's, they rarely come on the depots I work at and hopefully it will stay that way.
Wouldn't mind a 37 coming on though.

 

[Legzr1]

Jeez, talk about a difference in opinion. Beveridges - I think you will find that legzr1 is just voicing a slightly more educated opinion!!! In his/her opinion the 66 is better at humping freight all over the UK than a pair of 37's, and that's fair enough, in fact, I would say I agree.
But for noise and soul?? Anything EXCEPT a Shed gets my vote, sorry, but again, it's just an opinion.
Now, your comment about the pair of 37's - lets look into that. So a single 37 puts out, what, 1750HP?? So a pair put out, say, 3500?? A single 66 will put pump out 3,300 or so. Let us also not forget that the 66 is built abroad, using far more modern manufacturing techniques than anything BR managed, ever. It also uses pretty advanced Microprocessors that control the distribution of the power that is produced to the wheels, making sure that whichever wheel is most able to use the power, gets it.
I believe the system is something similar to the SepEx system that BR employed on the 58's...........
Let's also look at something else. One 66 weighs 127 tonnes. Two 37's weigh in at give or take, 200 tonnes - for almost exactly the same BHP?? Less weight equals less wear on the track, doesn't it??
I might not like the 66 any more than the next enthusiast, but it's damned good at doing what it was conceived to do. I imagine it to be a lot comfier for the driver - for a start he doesn't have to crick his neck to look over the nose all the while. Most of the drivers I see driving 66's coming past my depot all look really rather comfortable - ever seen a driver on a 37??

Good post full of facts.

Shame this forum doesn't have more of them.



Now, passenger -vs- freight:

As anyone with a semblance of common sense would agree with, they can both offer challenges, both can be rewarding, both can create unbelievable frustration and both offer an excellent career if you're the sort of person that can deal with the challenges and take them in your stride.

Neither are shed driving.

 

[TDK]

e and I have come across many like that on the railway and to be honest they are usually the type of person the railway is better off without.

Sorry beveridges but that comment has in my opinion made you loot like a troll

 

[Beveridges]

Maybe it has but there is some validity on that comment - through my job and previous job - I have met plenty of "experienced" staff who have terrible arrogant attitudes, hostile to new-commers and anyone else who they deem "inferior". Some of them also happen to have had recent incidents costing the company over a million.

"some" of the stuff legzr1 has wrote is trolling.

I do not care less to be honest what people think of me or whether anyone listens or not. I normally only "use" this forum to pass the time whenever I'm otherwise bored in the messroom at work & as long as it serves that purpose well then thats all I'm bothered.

 

[Rugd1022]

Maybe it has but there is some validity on that comment - through my job and previous job - I have met plenty of "experienced" staff who have terrible arrogant attitudes, hostile to new-commers and anyone else who they deem "inferior". Some of them also happen to have had recent incidents costing the company over a million.

"some" of the stuff legzr1 has wrote is trolling.

I do not care less to be honest what people think of me or whether anyone listens or not. I normally only "use" this forum to pass the time whenever I'm otherwise bored in the messroom at work & as long as it serves that purpose well then thats all I'm bothered.

Reading your posts I'm beginning to wonder if YOU are the 'type of person the railway is better off without'. You say some of the people you've met at work have an 'attitude'.... perhaps it's time to take a long hard look in the mirror and think about what you say about your fellow railwaymen. I know we've never met and are probably never likely too, but I get the distinct impression you wouldn't last very long as freight driver with any company, you come across as having very little patience, and as being someone who would bail out at the slightest provocation - not ideal material for freight driving. Just my opinion of course... feel free to ignore it by all means

Anyway - freight v passenger : There have been some excellent points made so far. I've driven both and while there are certainly differences in handling, to me the route knowledge is more or less the same - you either know a route or you don't. Although I'm a freight man now I'm still called upon to conduct passenger Drivers over certain routes regularly, and when this happens the required braking and stopping points come very easily to mind. There are certain places on my route card where a good overall knowledge of another TOC's stopping train patterns come in very handy - on the southern part of the MML under the wires for instance, working a train north along the Down Slow I nearly awlays get stopped at Radlett Junction to allow a unit to cross from the Up Slow to Up fast, on sighting the two yellows at Elstree I hang back and by the time I'm approaching the single yellow I can see the unit approaching and starting to cross over the junction ahaead of me. Still hanging back just enough, by the time the unit has clreared the junction and my route has been set I have enough 'in hand' to act on the green signal ahead and power up the gradient beyond Rdalett Station. If the junction signal is still at danger by the time the unit is long gone I still have plenty of time to brake for it too. All good stuff and one of the many satisfying aspects of the job for me

 

[TDK]

Although I'm a freight man now I'm still called upon to conduct passenger Drivers over certain routes regularly, and when this happens the required braking and stopping points come very easily to mind. There are certain places on my route card where a good overall knowledge of another TOC's stopping train patterns come in very handy -

This is a very valid point, it is a lot easier for a passenger driver to conduct a freight driver rather than the other way round. I remember there were some freight drivers route refreshing the chiltern lines to be able to conduct the VT drivers over the route and also HST's over the route. To start with freight drivers have restrictions on speed where as in most cases if the line speed is up to 75mph a freight can only do 60 and over 75 a freight can only do 75, also you have the differential speed restrictions where a freight driver will not need to apply the brake at all where a passenger driver will, so a very valid point on the route knowledge required by a freight driver in comparison to a passenger driver.

 

[Rugd1022]

* Second attempt at posting this - the first one vanished! *

TDK - I was one of those Freightliner Driver's who conducted the FGW lads over the Chiltern - a very interesting week to be at work it was too! Made all the more interesting as thick fog had enshrouded the railway at the time

 

[TDK]

* Second attempt at posting this - the first one vanished! *

TDK - I was one of those Freightliner Driver's who conducted the FGW lads over the Chiltern - a very interesting week to be at work it was too! Made all the more interesting as thick fog had enshrouded the railway at the time

Probabaly had you in my cab when you were refreshing the route then