Passenger-unfriendly downsides of e-tickets?

[Bletchleyite]

UNBREAKcable screen protectors - the phone owners' defence against gravity - tested to destruction by Mrs talldave!

Screen protectors and bump cases do generally work, even cheap ones. Even phone manufacturers agree - some phones are actually supplied with them already installed. When I had a Oneplus phone years ago that did, for instance. It is odd that the industry sells devices to which almost everyone will add protection rather than selling them pre-protected, but that's where we are I guess.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Nov 2024 ==

I'd warn that the lack of this is an explicit design choice to prevent any single point of failure.

Tickets are encrypted so that their content can be trusted without the need for any centralised system.

That has upsides and downsides. Resilience of the system is an upside (though it is possible to have replication between systems) but resilience from a passenger perspective (e.g. broken phone, lost printout, been mugged) is a definite downside.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Why do so many people think you need a phone to display an eTicket ?

Because of the name e-ticket?

 

[AdamWW]

Screen protectors and bump cases do generally work, even cheap ones. Even phone manufacturers agree - some phones are actually supplied with them already installed. When I had a Oneplus phone years ago that did, for instance. It is odd that the industry sells devices to which almost everyone will add protection rather than selling them pre-protected, but that's where we are I guess.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Nov 2024 ==



That has upsides and downsides. Resilience of the system is an upside (though it is possible to have replication between systems) but resilience from a passenger perspective (e.g. broken phone, lost printout, been mugged) is a definite downside.

I don't see what principle would prevent having a centralised system but retaining the ability to verify ticket validity without being able to access the system.

 

[OscarH]

Presumably you mean or a printer? We've had this discussion many times, it's not an option for those without one or access to one.

Out of curiosity, when you hear the guard going through collecting beeps, occasionally there's a different tone that sounds like when someone gives a wrong answer on a TV quiz show. However the guard usually just nods and walks on. What is the reason for the difference in scanning tones? Is it indicating that there's a railcard discount? Child ticket? Presumably it's meant to flag up that there's something else that needs checking?

Yeah, the most common apps at least have 3 tones, good, warning, and bad. Warning generally means railcard needs checking or something along those lines

 

[fandroid]

When e-tickets first arrived I got the impression that they were slowing down the onboard ticket check. However, now that they're almost universal on my usual routes, they seem to be as quick, if not quicker, than in the paper-only days.

Concerning bump cases for phones, I have found that even cheap and cheerful ones work for me, clumsy as I can be. The real reason I got one though was static affecting the touch screen. My dry hands, I guess, but that little layer of insulation means I have far fewer problems with getting the correct screen up to display the e-ticket.

 

[island]

Yeah, the most common apps at least have 3 tones, good, warning, and bad. Warning generally means railcard needs checking or something along those lines

I’ve heard at least four tones, being

• Single beep
• Two beeps
• Three beeps, the middle one high
• Two low beeps

 

[Wallsendmag]

There are on the App I have access to.
Accept
Accept Child
Accept 1st
Acc 1st Child
Warning
Reject

All of which can be customised

 

[DarloRich]

Why do so many people think you need a phone to display an eTicket ?

ok - I will bite:

What other "things" can I display my e-ticket on?

 

[OscarH]

I’ve heard at least four tones, being

• Single beep
• Two beeps
• Three beeps, the middle one high
• Two low beeps

Ah! I clearly haven't played with a wide enough range of tickets

 

[Bletchleyite]

ok - I will bite:

What other "things" can I display my e-ticket on?

You can print it out. Or you can show it on an iPad or laptop, though that would be "fun" at a gateline!

 

[Lewisham2221]

You can print it out. Or you can show it on an iPad or laptop, though that would be "fun" at a gateline!

I've had one shown to me on a smart watch

 

[Wallsendmag]

ok - I will bite:

What other "things" can I display my e-ticket on?

A piece of paper

 

[rs101]

Why? When so many of us pay for most things using our phone, have gig tickets on our phones, have Clubcard, Nectar etc on our phones, sometimes not even carrying a wallet, would people be interested in changing the balance?

Indeed.

Earlier this year, I went from Essex to Heathrow (by train), flew to Atlanta, used their subway system (Marta), used e-scooters, Uber and Lyft, flew to Orlando, used Uber, flew back to Heathrow, then train home.
The only time I needed a paper ticket was the train here. Everything else used either an app on my phone, or a credit card for hotel and food (I'd have used contactless, but it was a business trip).

Went to Switzerland on holiday a few years ago - train to London, underground to St Pancras, Eurostar to Paris, TGV to Geneva, then local trains/buses/boats and even a music festival in the mountains. Didn't need a single paper ticket for any of those. Have also flown there a few times via London City - again, no paper tickets involved at all, except for the train here (as we stopped at Stratford on the way).

I'm off to Stratford tomorrow for a gig - station parking will be via an app, gig ticket in my Google Wallet and I can order drinks at the venue via an app or in person, paying with my phone. Greater Anglia is even offering me an e-ticket for that now..

 

[AlterEgo]

ok - I will bite:

What other "things" can I display my e-ticket on?

As long as the bar code can be read then this is sufficient.

 

[DarloRich]

You can print it out. Or you can show it on an iPad or laptop, though that would be "fun" at a gateline!

I've had one shown to me on a smart watch

A piece of paper

that's a bit low tech! I was thinking more like above!

(also does printing and E ticket not defeat the purpose?)

 

[OhNoAPacer]

A piece of paper

But difficult to print out if standing at the station whilst buying a ticket online.

 

[Bletchleyite]

(also does printing and E ticket not defeat the purpose?)

No, it still avoids the need to do any faffing at the station and stand in an arbitrary length queue to do so.

 

[AdamWW]

(also does printing and E ticket not defeat the purpose?)

Er....no?

Unless you have a ticket vending machine in your house I suppose.

 

[DarloRich]

No, it still avoids the need to do any faffing at the station and stand in an arbitrary length queue to do so.

Er....no?

Unless you have a ticket vending machine in your house I suppose.

but I get the e ticket on my phone in my pocket. Printing it seems a pointless faff.

( and I know some hold outs refuse to get a smart phone but we just shouldn't pander to them - join the 20th century if not the 21st!)

 

[AdamWW]

( and I know some hold outs refuse to get a smart phone but we just shouldn't pander to them - join the 20th century if not the 21st!)

Not sure what you're proposing. Making it invalid to show a printed eticket? What would be the point?

If I print an eticket I don't have to worry about phone battery life, I can show it even if I'm using my phone to take photos out of the window (a bit of an edge case but it has happened to me) and if heaven forbid someone drives past on a moped and makes off with my phone, or it just fails on me, I can still get home.

Hitting print and collecting a piece of paper from my printer is not a huge effort.

 

[ainsworth74]

(also does printing and E ticket not defeat the purpose?)

Not really, it's helpful for some people who aren't as confident with technology as others. I did a journey with my mum a few years ago where I was with her on the outward but had to leave her to go home by herself on the return leg. E-tickets shown by me on my phone on the outward but I gave her the printed copy of her ticket for her to use on the return as she was more comfortable with a piece of paper than using her phone (even though it would have been able to do it). Worked out well for us! Rather than faffing with making a special trip to collect the tickets (or get to the station early) if we'd just done with traditional paper tickets.

The advantage of e-tickets is the inherent flexibility that allows them to be used by everyone in a way that they are most comfortable with and is most convenient.

 

[jon81uk]

One thing that is a downside of the e-ticket system is that one cannot get a reprint of it on paper from a TVM or booking office. With these now moving to issuing tickets with barcodes, this should surely not be hard to achieve, certainly doing it at the booking office on production of ID or the card used to buy it.

Given there is nothing stopping me logging onto my email and printing multiple copies of the PDF, it can't be the thought of several people holding the same ticket. I assume it is because of different retailers so there is no central repository of who bought what ticket.

 

[DarloRich]

Not sure what you're proposing. Making it invalid to show a printed eticket? What would be the point?

where have I said that?!?! I just don't get why you would chose an e ticket and then print it. It seems like a waste of time, effort and resource!

If I print an eticket I don't have to worry about phone battery life, I can show it even if I'm using my phone to take photos out of the window (a bit of an edge case but it has happened to me) and if heaven forbid someone drives past on a moped and makes off with my phone, or it just fails on me, I can still get home.

I don't have to worry about battery life. I have a modern phone which is about a year old which is charged when/ where I can. If I am out and about I use it all day for all kind of things. It has never gone flat. I also take an adventure battery if I go on a big trip as a back up.

No one has yet pinched my phone or the phone of anyone I know. By the same token they could pinch my wallet with the paper tickets in. If that happens ( as did to me once on the underground) I spoke to station staff and they sorted it all out and got me home. People are decent when you need them.

Hitting print and collecting a piece of paper from my printer is not a huge effort.

It is if you don't own a printer!

Not really, it's helpful for some people who aren't as confident with technology as others. I did a journey with my mum a few years ago where I was with her on the outward but had to leave her to go home by herself on the return leg.

I get that. My mum recently made a mistake and got an e ticket. I showed her how to access it and how to take a screen shot for back up, how to use it and how easy it was and she now gets them all the time.

I am not a tech wizard btw. I just try not to be a hold out for no reason. People on this board always seem to look for reasons to resist change rather than just go with it and try something new. I cant abide small (or big ) C conservatism and find it maddening.

 

[Tetchytyke]

ok - I will bite:

What other "things" can I display my e-ticket on?

Anything you can print a PDF on to.

I'm amazed, to be honest, that someone hasn't yet had the wheeze of screen-printing it on to a T-shirt.

I just don't get why you would chose an e ticket and then print it. It seems like a waste of time, effort and resource!

I do print off things like boarding passes and e-tickets as a belt-and-braces approach. I'm the sort of klutz who'd lose a paper ticket or end up bricking my phone, but even I'm unlikely to do both.

 

[ainsworth74]

One thing that is a downside of the e-ticket system is that one cannot get a reprint of it on paper from a TVM or booking office. With these now moving to issuing tickets with barcodes, this should surely not be hard to achieve, certainly doing it at the booking office on production of ID or the card used to buy it.

I was very impressed by how SNCF handled this. When I bought tickets with them I was sent a PDF that I could show on my phone or print and show instead. The journey was also added to the SNCF app which I could use to show the ticket but also gave me information on the formation of the train, I think where to stand on the platform, as well as push notifications of delays and whatnot. Finally I could also take the code to a TVM and type that in and it would print the tickets for me there as well.

I thought this was extremely passenger friendly and absolutely nailed how to do ticket retailing. And that was SNCF, not renowned for being passenger friendly! Personally I would suggest that we could do worse than adopt a similar approach of allowing tickets to be printed at a TVM on presentation of a valid booking confirmation.

 

[DarloRich]

I thought this was extremely passenger friendly and absolutely nailed how to do ticket retailing. And that was SNCF, not renowned for being passenger friendly! Personally I would suggest that we could do worse than adopt a similar approach of allowing tickets to be printed at a TVM on presentation of a valid booking confirmation.

that all sounds very helpful & friendly. It should not be copied in anyway!

 

[ainsworth74]

that all sounds very helpful & friendly. It should not be copied in anyway!

Absolutely not! I've not even mentioned that I managed to book the right train on the wrong day and was able to amend the ticket online with no admin fee and because the correct train on the correct day was cheaper I was refunded the difference in fares within 48 hours...

Couldn't possibly allow that sort of thing over here!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Absolutely not! I've not even mentioned that I managed to book the right train on the wrong day and was able to amend the ticket online with no admin fee and because the correct train on the correct day was cheaper I was refunded the difference in fares within 48 hours...

Couldn't possibly allow that sort of thing over here!

Abolishing the admin fee for changes is long overdue - nobody actually does any admin any more, it's all electronic. Just charge the fare difference - and yes, ideally refund it down if it's cheaper, Premier Inn does!

I would be less disinclined to use Advances if a quick change on the app was easy and only involved paying the fare difference.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

where have I said that?!?! I just don't get why you would chose an e ticket and then print it. It seems like a waste of time, effort and resource!

I don't have to worry about battery life. I have a modern phone which is about a year old which is charged when/ where I can. If I am out and about I use it all day for all kind of things. It has never gone flat. I also take an adventure battery if I go on a big trip as a back up.

No one has yet pinched my phone or the phone of anyone I know. By the same token they could pinch my wallet with the paper tickets in. If that happens ( as did to me once on the underground) I spoke to station staff and they sorted it all out and got me home. People are decent when you need them.


It is if you don't own a printer!

I get that. My mum recently made a mistake and got an e ticket. I showed her how to access it and how to take a screen shot for back up, how to use it and how easy it was and she now gets them all the time.

I am not a tech wizard btw. I just try not to be a hold out for no reason. People on this board always seem to look for reasons to resist change rather than just go with it and try something new. I cant abide small (or big ) C conservatism and find it maddening.

Change is only good if it makes life better. Change for change's sake, such as making everyone totally reliant on their mobile phone doesn't make anyone's life better.

I admit I have on occasion, used an e-ticket at short notice when there's been no ticket collection option available, but i much prefer the convenience of a paper ticket.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I would be less disinclined to use Advances if a quick change on the app was easy and only involved paying the fare difference.

It depends on which retailer you book your tickets with.

I did exactly the same thing with TPE not so long ago- bought the ticket for the day before the one I meant to. I could amend the ticket for free. The day after was cheaper and sadly there was no refund, but at least I wasn't charged a tenner for nothing.