Passenger information: the railway needs to catch up

[infobleep]

The problem isn't that the information isn't tracked but its how each of these systems talk to each other and who controls the input. A lot of information is 'known' but not shared. Our resources do not need to check unit diagrams but they regularly access the crew diagrams. Engineering log the faults but they aren't passed on to customer information. etc etc.

Getting things from what happens on the ground then transferred up the chain and back down to the passengers and translated in a digestible format is what needs to be resolved.

In reality, what specifically affects the passengers decision to travel or not and what information is relevant to their journey.

I see what your saying.

I was once on a train where the loos weren't working. It had been sat at Gatwick Airport for 10 minutes before leaving. I was there for all that time.

When I said to the guard the loos weren't working, they came across as if they knew. Did they tell the passengers though, no. Did I need the loo, yes? Was it loo late to get off and not be delayed by doing so, yes? As it was a train towards Reading and only one an hour from Gatwick, I stayed on board and managed to make it to my destination but not without some mild discomfort at times. I'd have used the facilities at Gatwick Airport, had I been told sooner. I have a medical reason for wishing to know if the loos are not working.

 

[Flying Phil]

A very interesting thread with lots of insights - however to balance slightly the OP...... on our recent Easyjet flight we got to the airport and saw the info screen tell us our flight was "Cancelled" then our phone went to say our flight was "Cancelled, contact App" which we did but due to complex ticketing for we three people we had two reference numbers and could not confirm alternative flights or get food vouchers or hotel details without queueing at the two person Easyjet "customer service" desk.....behind 100 people and in front of the other 100 people from the same flight! We did finally get home after much legwork and standing around trying to get information.

AI is very much in the news ...... but it, and automation, and robotics (and fusion etc) have been/about to be transforming life for many years now so we can lead a life of pleasure and virtue.....Yet we now have the highest number of people in work (in the UK) than ever before and new jobs are created in new industries as old jobs disappear. "Plus ca change ..la meme chose" (ish) as has been said by people wiser - but not older(?) than me!

 

[Bletchleyite]

A very interesting thread with lots of insights - however to balance slightly the OP...... on our recent Easyjet flight we got to the airport and saw the info screen tell us our flight was "Cancelled" then our phone went to say our flight was "Cancelled, contact App" which we did but due to complex ticketing for we three people we had two reference numbers and could not confirm alternative flights or get food vouchers or hotel details without queueing at the two person Easyjet "customer service" desk.....behind 100 people and in front of the other 100 people from the same flight! We did finally get home after much legwork and standing around trying to get information.

I think the only reason the railway differs there is differing safety/security rules which mean you can just tell everyone to pile on the next train with no need to rebook. If you did have to rebook I bet it'd be as bad.

 

[EM2]

I see what your saying.

I was once on a train where the loos weren't working. It had been sat at Gatwick Airport for 10 minutes before leaving. I was there for all that time.

When I said to the guard the loos weren't working, they came across as if they knew. Did they tell the passengers though, no. Did I need the loo, yes? Was it loo late to get off and not be delayed by doing so, yes? As it was a train towards Reading and only one an hour from Gatwick, I stayed on board and managed to make it to my destination but not without some mild discomfort at times. I'd have used the facilities at Gatwick Airport, had I been told sooner. I have a medical reason for wishing to know if the loos are not working.

Let's compare with a Ryanair flight I took from Stansted to Dublin.
Checked in, got to the gate, boarded, settled down, announcement from the crew:
'There will be a delay on taking-off, as the toilet is out of service. We are awaiting a part which is arriving in from Dublin on the next arrival.'
We had to sit and wait on the tarmac, because apparently we can't fly without a functioning toilet.
We can't get off the plane and use the facilities in the terminal.
We sit on the tarmac for ninety minutes while this gets sorted.
It would have been quicker to take off on time, fly eighty minutes to Dublin and use the loos there!

 

[TheManBehind]

We had to sit and wait on the tarmac, because apparently we can't fly without a functioning toilet.

Fortunately trains can, but I think the point is that it's better to make people aware before they get on the train that they're not working so they can think to use the station ones first!

 

[tsr]

Fortunately trains can, but I think the point is that it's better to make people aware before they get on the train that they're not working so they can think to use the station ones first!

To be fair, if my train started flying, a functional toilet would be the least of my worries, and I'd need the station ones to clear up the brown trousers afterwards...

 

[EM2]

I think the point is that it's better to make people aware before they get on the train that they're not working so they can think to use the station ones first!

Exactly. And in my example, we weren't told until we were on the plane.

 

[Sprinter153]

Part of the problem with loos is that nobody wants to know. If I ring the Maintenance controller up and tell them the khazi in 50904 is out of water, they're not particularly bothered because the train's moving and they're certainly not going to walk across the control centre to the CIS controller to let them know about it especially if they have one of my colleagues on the line with a CDL fault or a faulty track circuit actuator.

And if I then phone CIS and let them know, they don't tend to care either. Ditto if I report the train full and standing or declassify first class, it rarely actually goes on the CIS, or even the control log.

 

[Bletchleyite]

And therein lies the problem - why in 2017 are those things not automatically linked?

 

[jon0844]

AI is very much in the news ...... but it, and automation, and robotics (and fusion etc) have been/about to be transforming life for many years now so we can lead a life of pleasure and virtue.....Yet we now have the highest number of people in work (in the UK) than ever before and new jobs are created in new industries as old jobs disappear. "Plus ca change ..la meme chose" (ish) as has been said by people wiser - but not older(?) than me!

While I think the auto industry is perhaps overselling its advancement in autonomous driving, it's happening in many other industries right now.

Sure, cars can drive themselves in perfect conditions. They can do lots of things, until they can't, when you need to take over. There are moral and legal issues to overcome, as well as the usual question about what happens when something goes wrong. Can an occupant of the vehicle take over? What if it's a driverless taxi and the passengers are drunk? What if the vehicle is hit by a non-driverless vehicle..

So many issues, and I personally think the day we have vehicles all going around their daily business without a driver is the day a Government bans drivers so they're ALL autonomous.

But distribution warehouses are all working towards robots to pick stock and leaving a handful of skeleton staff to maintain them, and (currently) to load lorries.

The legal profession is working with AI to do loads of work currently done by legal people.

In fact, lots of professions are going to see big drops in staff numbers OR a reduction of the types of skills needed, which may mean lower wages.

Not every job is destined to be replaced. Creative jobs and many others may remain. Plus jobs for work around a home, where it won't be likely a robot will turn up (yet for construction, machines can build walls and that's assuming we don't pre-fab a lot of future homes).

It's not all doom and gloom but the next 10 years are still likely to be as much of an impact on people as when we first got automated production lines and computers came in and made a lot of people redundant.

So don't think it won't happen.

 

[Llanigraham]

And therein lies the problem - why in 2017 are those things not automatically linked?

Because we do not have the systems to cope.
Because we do not have the infrastructure to handle it.
Because they are too expensive to run.
Because we do not have the staff available to deal with it.

Is your car linked to a central control?
Is your house communicating with all it's suppliers?

You are being unreasonable.:roll::roll:

 

[AngusH]

>Is your car linked to a central control?

Yes, if you own a tesla

>Is your house communicating with all it's suppliers?

Yes if you have a smart meter

 

[AngusH]

I'd suggest though, that this is mostly work that is already being done.

(Or at least actively being developed if not yet implemented in the uk yet)


It will appear given a bit more time, and hopefully it'll make travelling more pleasant and the inevitable disruptions a little easier to accept.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'd suggest though, that this is mostly work that is already being done.

(Or at least actively being developed if not yet implemented in the uk yet)

I expect so. Things are improving all the time.

It will appear given a bit more time, and hopefully it'll make travelling more pleasant and the inevitable disruptions a little easier to accept.

Indeed. People like information even if it's useless to them - and getting the passengers on side during inevitable disruption is a massive benefit.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is your car linked to a central control?

Mine isn't, but some certainly are.

Actually, I lie, it sort-of is. For most journeys I use Waze for navigation. I even put it on when I know where I'm going because the traffic information is invaluable, and (now here's the killer app) drivers can, with a couple of taps, report problems to other drivers. So I get advance warning of problems, delays, accidents etc - even a simple vehicle on the hard shoulder so I can move to the middle lane well in advance to give him a wide berth.

Is your house communicating with all it's suppliers?

That kind of thing is just on the horizon.

You are being unreasonable.:roll::roll:

I think you are being rather Luddite, personally.

 

[AlterEgo]

Because we do not have the systems to cope.
Because we do not have the infrastructure to handle it.
Because they are too expensive to run.
Because we do not have the staff available to deal with it.

Is your car linked to a central control?
Is your house communicating with all it's suppliers?

You are being unreasonable.:roll::roll:

One of the things that fascinates me about driving is Google Maps. This has very accurate traffic information - and it's provided by tracking people's phones!

It knows there is a big jam between J5 and J6 of the M1 because there are 500 phones not moving in that location, and therefore reports it and adjusts my ETA. It does this even when traffic is going a little slower than usual. It can offer alternative routes.

All of this is a reality and connecting it to an autonomous car to make similar decisions to a human driver is not a big step.

There are some exceptionally grumpy and cynical people on here, particularly when it comes to technology.

 

[talldave]

One of the things that fascinates me about driving is Google Maps. This has very accurate traffic information - and it's provided by tracking people's phones!

It knows there is a big jam between J5 and J6 of the M1 because there are 500 phones not moving in that location, and therefore reports it and adjusts my ETA. It does this even when traffic is going a little slower than usual. It can offer alternative routes.

All of this is a reality and connecting it to an autonomous car to make similar decisions to a human driver is not a big step.

There are some exceptionally grumpy and cynical people on here, particularly when it comes to technology.

Tomtom were doing that long before Google came along!

 

[jon0844]

One of the things that fascinates me about driving is Google Maps. This has very accurate traffic information - and it's provided by tracking people's phones!

It knows there is a big jam between J5 and J6 of the M1 because there are 500 phones not moving in that location, and therefore reports it and adjusts my ETA. It does this even when traffic is going a little slower than usual. It can offer alternative routes.

A lot of people are totally unaware that their phone is providing this information, and it's not even something you can opt out of!

TomTom and TeleAtlas developed this initially in association with Vodafone, and I am not sure if it's still just Vodafone users that are 'tracked' (anonymously of course). I would expect it's all networks to provide more accuracy.

The best thing about it is that with so many mobiles in use, as soon as the movement of a number of devices slows down, it's possible to estimate a delay and how long to get past the problem (or if it's getting better or worse).

This is a very good example of why big data is so valuable, and many people are oblivious.

 

[EM2]

Waze...(now here's the killer app) drivers can, with a couple of taps, report problems to other drivers.

This *was* great, but with the increased penalties for using your phone (and that includes touching the screen) whilst driving, I'm having to rely on the voice commands, and they are very hit-and-miss.

 

[jon0844]

If the phone is in a holder you should be fine. However the app does now restrict a lot of usage (unless you declare you're a passenger) when moving.

 

[CentralTrainer]

Because we do not have the systems to cope.
Because we do not have the infrastructure to handle it.
Because they are too expensive to run.
Because we do not have the staff available to deal with it.

Is your car linked to a central control?
Is your house communicating with all it's suppliers?

You are being unreasonable.:roll::roll:

God forbid if all those alerts with information were to start a load of mobile phones chirping out notification alarms in the Quiet Carriage...

 

[infobleep]

I expect so. Things are improving all the time.



Indeed. People like information even if it's useless to them - and getting the passengers on side during inevitable disruption is a massive benefit.

I agree with your last point. Being told I have no information is much better than silence and I experience silence to often in my opinion.

I do also experience good information being given too. I've had a couple of good experiences where for a time the driver or guard didn't know what was going on. It was a good experience because they keot communicating with us.

Empathy with passengers is good. Silence not so good, as it comes across like you don't care, even if you do.

 

[infobleep]

I know TfL were looking about being able to provide delay information for buses. So there are people actively looking to improve information.

With regards to big data, I was at a mapping conference recently and someone was talking about there they source data from. One of the companies mentioned was Strava. That is a running / cycling fitness app. So you share your route with friends and family and Strava also sell the anomised data on to make money.

 

[al78]

Because we do not have the systems to cope.
Is your car linked to a central control?

No, but the onboard satnav can warn of traffic congestion en-route and re-route me around it, which is almost as good. It can also give estimated journey time and expected arrival times, which are updated based on real-time progression of journey. Very useful if someone is expecting me and would appreciate an estimated arrival time.

 

[al78]

There are some exceptionally grumpy and cynical people on here, particularly when it comes to technology.

The status-quo brigade, fear of change leading to opposition or denial. Fortunately we still manage to progress anyway.

 

[Bletchleyite]

This *was* great, but with the increased penalties for using your phone (and that includes touching the screen) whilst driving, I'm having to rely on the voice commands, and they are very hit-and-miss.

It doesn't include touching the screen if it's in a cradle, as it is then not a "hand held mobile phone".

Not that it can't be dangerous, of course, but legally it is the same as changing a radio channel or adjusting the heater.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I agree with your last point. Being told I have no information is much better than silence and I experience silence to often in my opinion.

Even the airline practice of "more information at X o'clock" is better than nothing, as it sets an expectation, even if that information is then "nothing yet sorry, more info at Y o'clock".

 

[Frontera2]

Ever heard of something called JounryCheck?

Yes, I got rid of it in my TOC

 

[welshpax]

While I think the auto industry is perhaps overselling its advancement in autonomous driving, it's happening in many other industries right now.

Sure, cars can drive themselves in perfect conditions. They can do lots of things, until they can't, when you need to take over. There are moral and legal issues to overcome, as well as the usual question about what happens when something goes wrong. Can an occupant of the vehicle take over? What if it's a driverless taxi and the passengers are drunk? What if the vehicle is hit by a non-driverless vehicle..

So many issues, and I personally think the day we have vehicles all going around their daily business without a driver is the day a Government bans drivers so they're ALL autonomous.

But distribution warehouses are all working towards robots to pick stock and leaving a handful of skeleton staff to maintain them, and (currently) to load lorries.

The legal profession is working with AI to do loads of work currently done by legal people.

In fact, lots of professions are going to see big drops in staff numbers OR a reduction of the types of skills needed, which may mean lower wages.

Not every job is destined to be replaced. Creative jobs and many others may remain. Plus jobs for work around a home, where it won't be likely a robot will turn up (yet for construction, machines can build walls and that's assuming we don't pre-fab a lot of future homes).

It's not all doom and gloom but the next 10 years are still likely to be as much of an impact on people as when we first got automated production lines and computers came in and made a lot of people redundant.

So don't think it won't happen.

I recently spent time in Silcon Valley and had a ride in a few autonomous vehicles, weather is not a problem now with the next generation equipment.

I saw at least 5 different systems when I was there and none of them have to stop in the rain, snow or any other day to day weather.

Just today, as part of my AI project, I approved new technology for customer service that will, within 6 months allow my organisation to reduce both skilled and unskilled parts of our workforce.

I would argue that creative industries will be somewhat immune to the AI juggernaut, I believe this will be one of the next industries to face disruption.

I wish I could go into more details on some of the projects I am working on at the moment, but cannot yet publish in the public domain. But what I will say is, one of the AI projects that is being developed for me is a world first and will change the face of Customer Service and the Customer Expereince forever.

When they are launched in 3 months, and if anyone is interested, I will write about them.

 

[Flying Phil]

The status-quo brigade, fear of change leading to opposition or denial. Fortunately we still manage to progress anyway.

From reading these posts I think it is more that older(?) posters have experienced quite a few changes and take some of the claims, made in advance, with a degree of scepticism......based upon experience.