Passenger forced to pay Anytime fare, but which one?

[Monkey Magic]

You started this rant in response to someone who SPECIFICALLY said "if I screwed up in those circumstances I would expect to take the consequences". But hey, continue yelling at the sky.

Ironic really since the only one ranting is you. But hey, everyone without a UK passport is just here to rip off the system and anyone who dares to disagree with you is a keyboard warrior...

Here's the thing, you didn't read my post properly and jumped to the wrong conclusion. You messed up. Strictly speaking by your own moral rules I should now treat you like dirt and assume that you were deliberately misreading my post to troll. To treat you differently would be to change the rules.

A mistake on your part? Maybe? Or perhaps the discussion forum equivalent of ticketless travel, exploiting the situation for your own ends.

No one is saying 'change the rules' however, I find it incongruous, when FGW is running a 'put yourself in their shoes' campaign for better relations between customers and staff, to see that far from putting themselves in their shoes, the default position of staff towards passengers without tickets or the wrong ticket is to say 'oh you must be cheating the system'. Clearly, not 'putting themselves in their shoes'.

I find it ironic that we get plenty of complaints from staff about passengers behaving unfairly towards them and lacking empathy with them when they are working in difficult situations (and staff are totally right to complain about this) but then behave towards passengers with a total lack of empathy and understanding, when passengers are potentially in difficult situations.

It's not hard really. Just think about the situation you are confronted with and try to understand. That's all.

Like I say, I'd love to see how you get on in a foreign country without making any mistakes on the system. No doubt you are obviously perfect and fluent and able to understand the nuances of every ticketing and travel system in the world.

 

[tony_mac]

I

No one is saying 'change the rules' however, I find it incongruous, when FGW is running a 'put yourself in their shoes' campaign for better relations between customers and staff, to see that far from putting themselves in their shoes, the default position of staff towards passengers without tickets or the wrong ticket is to say 'oh you must be cheating the system'.

I think that's your own interpretation - because that's not how I read it.
I read that where people are found ticketless, from staffed stations, the position was to try and get more details. Seems reasonable to me.

And, of course, some people do feign a lack of language skills to get away with things. So, I think at least some degree of suspicion would seem to be prudent.

 

[jb]

Like I say, I'd love to see how you get on in a foreign country without making any mistakes on the system. No doubt you are obviously perfect and fluent and able to understand the nuances of every ticketing and travel system in the world.

Actually, living overseas and struggling with systems and elements of culture of all sorts (about far more important stuff than bloody train tickets) I've probably forgotten more of this sort of stuff than you ever knew.

 

[Greenback]

I think that's your own interpretation - because that's not how I read it.
I read that where people are found ticketless, from staffed stations, the position was to try and get more details. Seems reasonable to me.

And, of course, some people do feign a lack of language skills to get away with things. So, I think at least some degree of suspicion would seem to be prudent.

I think that is is a very fair assessment. It can be hard to tell the difference between the tourist or visitor who has made a mistake, and the chancers who have lived in the UK for some time and try to play the system. Being as it is quite possible that a passenger who says they speak little or no English can fall into either of these two categories, it would be best to keep an open mind - a mind that is open to the possibility of the passenger being a chancer and a visitor who has made a mistake.

As such the default position is not to assume that the person is a fare evader, but neither to assume that they have made an innocent mistake either. Obviously, if someone like Flamingo has heard the same person conversing in fluent English a few minutes before, this evidence does tend to indicate that, hvaing lied about their competence in the English language, they may well be lying about other matters.

There is no default position really, except one based on the evidence available at the time, and every situation will need to be considered on its merits and circumstances. It cannot really be otherwise.

I hope that this thread will not decline into a personal argument. If it does, then posts are likely to be deleted, infractions may be issued and the thread could be closed.

 

[Mojo]

This probably had more to do with them keeping all the revenue from a TOC only ticket...

Whilst undoubtedly true, the staff brief did include the following Q and A:

''Q. Does this overrule previous instructions that I can only sell full priced open tickets when a customer boards without a ticket at a station where they could have purchased their discounted ticket?
A. No, this does not contravene the current policy. The dedicated tickets we are introducing are not classed as ‘discounted’ tickets. They are ‘full priced’ walk-up open tickets in their own right, and are the ones that should be sold on board. The only difference with the current ‘full priced’ walk-up open ticket is the new one is Toc-only, i.e. dedicated.''

 

[transmanche]

I'm sorry to tell you that the worrying of keyboard warriors over things like "default positions" bears no relation to anything that ticketless travellers actually care about, or anything that makes any difference to anyone in the real world.

Your use of the phrase 'keyboard warriors' is clearly designed to insult and belittle people who do not share the same opinion as you. It's no better than a childish insult.

Come back and treat people like adults and I'll pay attention to what you have to say.

 

[Flamingo]

Whilst undoubtedly true, the staff brief did include the following Q and A:

''Q. Does this overrule previous instructions that I can only sell full priced open tickets when a customer boards without a ticket at a station where they could have purchased their discounted ticket?
A. No, this does not contravene the current policy. The dedicated tickets we are introducing are not classed as ‘discounted’ tickets. They are ‘full priced’ walk-up open tickets in their own right, and are the ones that should be sold on board. The only difference with the current ‘full priced’ walk-up open ticket is the new one is Toc-only, i.e. dedicated.''

... and by a happy coincidence we keep all the money from it

 

[yorkie]

If a more expensive routed ticket is sold, that's not correct, and even though the fare is higher, it could give less revenue to the TOC(s) who the passenger actually travelled with.

It distorts usage figures, not that railway accounting is of any concern to passengers, but it is to TOCs.

Literal interpretations of an instruction, without reference to other instructions and procedures is not a good thing.

It should be pretty obvious that a 'full fare' ticket should still be issued for the correct class & routeing!

 

[island]

... and by a happy coincidence we keep all the money from it

Except the TM's 5%

 

[Flamingo]

Except the TM's 5%

True! . I must admit, I did tickets even before we had commission. I believe when it was re-introduced a few years ago, on-train takings rose by nearly 50%!