Passenger density of new Metro/Outer Suburban EMUs

[AM9]

There have been a number of threads where discussion has concentrated on the capacity of the latest fleets of EMUs and the seating/standing arrangements adopted to achieve them. To get the relative effects of these arrangements I dashed up a spreadsheet to determine the passenger per metre train length and having looked at the figures, thought that it might be worth starting a thread for discussion. Note that some figures are guesses based on similar layouts where full figures are available. These are suffixed by '?'
So here is the table:

		seated		standing		total
class	train length	No.	pax/m	No.	pax/m	No.	pax/m

700/0	162.00	427	2.64	719	4.44	1146	7.07
700/1	242.60	666	2.75	1088	4.48	1754	7.23
345	204.73	450	2.20	1050	5.13	1500	7.33
707	101.60	275	2.71	550?	5.41	825	8.12
717	121.70	362	2.97	660?	5.42	1022	8.40
710/1&2	82.87	189	2.28	489	5.90	678	8.18
710/3	102.86	241	2.34	641	6.23	882	8.57
720/5&6	122.00	540	4.43	145	1.19	685	5.61
701/0	200.00	556	2.78	746	3.73	1302	6.51
701/5	100.00	274	2.74	361	3.61	635	6.35

For comparison, I have also added some info. about the two classes of NR metro EMUs in service before the latest shopping spree. The figues are under the same headings and some data doesn't seem to be available:

376	98.97	222	2.24
378	98.87	182?	1.84

Notes of interest, despite the pure metro stock not having toilets, it doesn't seem to make that much difference to total capacity, the biggest gain being wide standing areas, particularly with longitudinal seating.

 

[swt_passenger]

Aren’t your 701s too long? Should be 10 car and 5 car @ 20m.
Standing capacity of the 5 car 707 was only 320 in the DfT 2017 franchise ITT.

 

[AM9]

Aren’t your 701s too long? Should be 10 car and 5 car @ 20m.
Standing capacity of the 5 car 707 was only 320 in the DfT 2017 franchise ITT.

I can't find much ifo on them. Judging by the picture that's shown on the Wikipedia page, (yes I know it's only a rough indication of their appearance), the driving ends look a bit more protruding from the bogies than all the other car ends so as I didn't have a figure for their length, I assumed that they might be the same as the 720s. For the 10s, going on comments here that the 10-car is the same length as two 5-cars I couldn't 'square the circle'.
As for the 707s, as they are identiacal to the 700s, except for the lack of toilets, and about 1 1/3 car lengths given over to 1st class, I estimated that the actual crush load would be the linear equivalent. As I said, some of thefigutres are missing/estimated, - if anybody has real info I'm happy to incorporate it.

 

[swt_passenger]

I can't find much ifo on them. Judging by the picture that's shown on the Wikipedia page, (yes I know it's only a rough indication of their appearance), the driving ends look a bit more protruding from the bogies than all the other car ends so as I didn't have a figure for their length, I assumed that they might be the same as the 720s. For the 10s, going on comments here that the 10-car is the same length as two 5-cars I couldn't 'square the circle'.
As for the 707s, as they are identiacal to the 700s, except for the lack of toilets, and about 1 1/3 car lengths given over to 1st class, I estimated that the actual crush load would be the linear equivalent. As I said, some of thefigutres are missing/estimated, - if anybody has real info I'm happy to incorporate it.

The SWR 701s are most definitely only 20m vehicles, to fit the local infrastructure. As has been discussed in the dedicated thread the cabs were altered compared to other Aventras to make the 10 car set the same equivalent length as a pair of 5 cars.

 

[AM9]

OK, thanks for that confirmation, I've changed the figures and also padded out the column widths to align them with the headings.
Oops that didn't work, I'l have to fill them with something!

 

[swt_passenger]

OK, thanks for that confirmation, I've changed the figures and also padded out the column widths to align them with the headings.
Oops that didn't work, I'l have to fill them with something!

You’ve still got the 701s too long though. You’ve presumably used 12 or 6 x 20m this time?

 

[AM9]

Doh! I have always associated London 20m stock with trains in multiples of 4 (and on SR in multiples of 4+2), so hopefully that's fixed now. That does of course bring the density of the 701s up a little now above the total of the GE 720s with their 3+2 seating.

Thanks

 

[Alfie1014]

Great piece of work there AM9. It does show up how much of a compromise (in everything except seating capacity) the 720s are. They are not the great people movers that 345s, 700s and 710s are and for other than a short period in the high peak (which post COVID is not what it was and may indeed never may be) the high density layout is not ideally suited for leisure traffic. Their genesis nearly at the time of franchise bidding may have seemed the optimal (or at least the best value) solution but in hindsight 7 years later not so much.