Pass Holder?

[PudseyBearHST]

Who qualifies/qualified for 1st class facilities anyway? Is it strictly done by grade or are there other criteria.

Usually yes but not necessarily. With Virgin, it is first class on weekends only and after 5 years, you get first class all the time.

Whereas with SWT/SWR for example, it was only standard class irrespective of service and first class was only given to managers.

To be honest if you ask the guard nicely, there is a good chance he or she will let you sit in first. I used to have a BR pass for standard class and you eventually get to know which TOCs are more ‘relaxed.’

 

[DarloRich]

Who qualifies/qualified for 1st class facilities anyway? Is it strictly done by grade or are there other criteria.

if you wear orange and fix the track you get nowt. At least that is equal. All grades get nowt ( unless you are ex BR)

There are lots of ex BR staff who can hardly be described as "old codgers".

Lucky old codgers the lot of you

 

[greyman42]

I know people who are ex BR and get a 'free' pass but actually have to pay around £480 per annum for it. Does anyone know how this came about?

 

[ag51ruk]

The ATOC passes involve first class travel if you're over a certain grade equivalent to the old BR grading system and more senior management who are also protected ex BR staff can also have a status pass - there's limited numbers of these available to each TOC for active staff.

Silver passes give unlimited first class travel and allow you to travel in brake vans etc (I have actually allowed that privilege before during service disruption when I ended up with a Network Rail senior manager in the rear cab).

Never knew that about silver status passes - might try that on my way home tonight

 

[LowLevel]

Never knew that about silver status passes - might try that on my way home tonight

They permit (or maybe used to permit, not sure what RST have to say on the matter) you to travel in a brake van - stretching the definition to a rear driving cab suited my desire to get as many people on the train as possible by removing this gent from the available passenger space into a non public area He was sociable enough anyway, had a decent chat about our different worlds at work.

I suspect that the entitlement has lapsed with privatisation and the removal of brake vans from most trains (I expect it was originally intended to allow the holder to make use of freight and parcels services) however it's still in our retail handbook and hasn't been updated so it's one I keep in my top pocket in case it comes in useful.

 

[PudseyBearHST]

They permit (or maybe used to permit, not sure what RST have to say on the matter) you to travel in a brake van - stretching the definition to a rear driving cab suited my desire to get as many people on the train as possible by removing this gent from the available passenger space into a non public area He was sociable enough anyway, had a decent chat about our different worlds at work.

I suspect that the entitlement has lapsed with privatisation and the removal of brake vans from most trains (I expect it was originally intended to allow the holder to make use of freight and parcels services) however it's still in our retail handbook and hasn't been updated so it's one I keep in my top pocket in case it comes in useful.

Apologies if this question doesn’t make sense or if it’s a silly question but what about dependents? Can they do the same?

 

[Kite159]

I know people who are ex BR and get a 'free' pass but actually have to pay around £480 per annum for it. Does anyone know how this came about?

Treated as a 'benefit in kind' for tax purposes?

 

[twpsaesneg]

Treated as a 'benefit in kind' for tax purposes?

Yes.
An ex-colleague of mine used to moan about paying £480 to the taxman as a benefit in kind for his Silver status pass.

£480 for an all stations first class ticket for him and his family always sounded a good deal to me paying £4k for my standard season ticket to get to work...

 

[LowLevel]

Apologies if this question doesn’t make sense or if it’s a silly question but what about dependents? Can they do the same?

Nah. Just active staff.

I've had a look and the last time it appeared on the RST file was 2011.

Sadly it seems to have been removed.

 

[PudseyBearHST]

Nah. Just active staff.

I've had a look and the last time it appeared on the RST file was 2011.

Sadly it seems to have been removed.

Thanks for the reply.

 

[Signal Head]

Yes.
An ex-colleague of mine used to moan about paying £480 to the taxman as a benefit in kind for his Silver status pass.

£480 for an all stations first class ticket for him and his family always sounded a good deal to me paying £4k for my standard season ticket to get to work...

I understood this varies according to company type (may be incorrect but it was what I was told).

For a TOC, the safeguarded facilities are apparently issued FOC (to the company), because its a communal/reciprocal arrangement where all companies staff benefit and travel on each others trains. As no money changes hands in their provision, HMRC do not treat these as a BIK.

However, those of us flogged off to engineering contractors do have our facilities taxed, as our employers have to pay ATOC for the privilege (pun intended).

I certainly used to get taxed on mine, but cannot remember when this started happening, ie pre- or post-privatisation.

 

[Worldwide]

Virgin are normally very good with staff in first class. You will usually get offered a drink (tea, coffee,etc...) and depending on how busy it is and how nice the crew are, you will also get offered a meal.

I always get food and drink on Virgin, just not allowed to accept the booze and always get given the 50% discount in the onboard shop.

 

[185]

Or would I have got a double on a sort of mates rates principle?

Different story in other places.

Euuuggrrr the hangover after that trip on Eurostar. They spotted the staff pass and that was it.... downhill from there.

 

[Elecman]

I know people who are ex BR and get a 'free' pass but actually have to pay around £480 per annum for it. Does anyone know how this came about?

Yes they don’t work for a passenger TOC therfore thier employer has to buy the facility from ATOC/ RDG hence it is a benefit in kind and they are paying the tax on that benefit. Obviously doesn’t apply within passenger TOCs as it is a reciprocal arrangement. One of the disbenefits of Privatisation for non passenger TOC staff.

 

[greyman42]

Yes they don’t work for a passenger TOC therfore thier employer has to buy the facility from ATOC/ RDG hence it is a benefit in kind and they are paying the tax on that benefit. Obviously doesn’t apply within passenger TOCs as it is a reciprocal arrangement. One of the disbenefits of Privatisation for non passenger TOC staff.

Thanks for that. Makes complete sense now. Do you know how they calculate the amount of tax due?

 

[duffield]

Thanks for that. Makes complete sense now. Do you know how they calculate the amount of tax due?

Based on the amount your company pays to ATOC.

In fact the so-called 'retention of free travel' after privatization was even worse in my case than just paying extra tax. My employer offered to 'buy out' our free travel for something like £1000 p.a. salary increase - also pensionable. So my 'free travel' effectively costs me a fair bit more than just the tax and will reduce my railway pension (I still think it's well worth it, and realize a lot of people would sell their grannies for it, but it's a long way from the 'promise' we were given at privatization time).

Back to the point, I find it simpler to stick to just coffee on all TOCs** after asking for juice on EMT (not realizing the rules had just changed) and getting a very curt response on one occasion. I travel on lots of TOCs and can't be bothered to keep track of what's allowed for the sake of a couple of biscuits etc.

** Except cross country 170 services, nothing at all on these as noted above.

 

[ungreat]

There are lots of ex BR staff who can hardly be described as "old codgers".

Quite!!! I'm 31 years service and not (but soon) yet 50

 

[dk1]

Quite!!! I'm 31 years service and not (but soon) yet 50

34yrs in September & 50 last month