Park & Rides in the WECA (Greater Bristol) area

[freetoview33]

I would like to know peoples views on park & rides across the Greater Bristol area, assuming demand returns to normal after the current crisis if the current sites are right and if the proposed sites would work, or if you think there are any better sites.

Q: Where do you think Park & Rides should be located and why?

Current Park & Rides

Portway (A4 Bristol West) - 500 spaces (Proposed expansion)
Long Ashton (A370 Bristol) - 1,500 spaces (Proposed expansion)
Brislington (A4 Bristol East) - 1,300 spaces - (Proposed relocation to Hicks Gate and 750 new houses built on current site)
Lyde Green (A4174 Bristol North East) - 246 spaces
Lansdown (?? Bath North) - 878 spaces
Odd Down (A367 Bath South) - 1,230 spaces
Newbridge (A4 Bath West) - 698 spaces

Currently Proposed Park & Rides

Bath East (A4 Bath East) - Still on the list, even though BaNES keeps scrapping the idea. Only 1 suitable site, which is very controversial.
Weston (A370/A371) - Near the rounadabout where the A370/A371 join in Weston-super-Mare. Proposed to relieve traffic mainly on Summer days with people visiting, guess it could also be used for people getting the bus to bristol.
Whitchurch (A37 Bristol South) - Roughly on/near the site of Bristol Barbarians RFC. Partly to serve hundreds of new homes in the Whitchurch area and the Mendips.
Hicks Gate (A4 Bristol East) - Replacing Brislington, located off the Durley Hill, Bus only section, so old site can become housing and to connect up better with A4714.
Warmley (A420) - No exact location, likely to tie into new homes/neighbourhood proposed between the old railway line and Webb's Heath as well as people from Marshfield/Wick.
Hambrook (M32) - They still propose the site to be on the allotments, even though BCC have said no to that, it is the only location planned, as other sites are proposed for housing, Highways England say it will involve a downgrading of the M32 to an A road.
Henbury (A4018) - Near the new Henbury Station, proposed to serve new housing in the West of Cribbs/Patchway area and people coming from the M5 North, taking over from the Portway site
A38 South (A38 South) - Likely to be Highridge way, I think it is proposed more as an orbital interchange.
Almondsbury (A38 North) - To serve the Thornbury area, located North of the M5 junction so would be for people travelling into Bristol from the Greater Thornbury area, rather than taking traffic from the M5
A432 (A432) - To serve the Yate Area, located North of the proposed M4 J18A junction so would be for people travelling into Bristol from the Greater Yate area, rather than taking traffic from the M4

I will post my own answer afterwards, I would just like to know peoples views.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I would like to know peoples views on park & rides across the Greater Bristol area, assuming demand returns to normal after the current crisis if the current sites are right and if the proposed sites would work, or if you think there are any better sites.

Q: Where do you think Park & Rides should be located and why?

Current Park & Rides

Portway (A4 Bristol West) - 500 spaces (Proposed expansion)
Long Ashton (A370 Bristol) - 1,500 spaces (Proposed expansion)
Brislington (A4 Bristol East) - 1,300 spaces - (Proposed relocation to Hicks Gate and 750 new houses built on current site)
Lyde Green (A4174 Bristol North East) - 246 spaces
Lansdown (?? Bath North) - 878 spaces
Odd Down (A367 Bath South) - 1,230 spaces
Newbridge (A4 Bath West) - 698 spaces

Currently Proposed Park & Rides

Bath East (A4 Bath East) - Still on the list, even though BaNES keeps scrapping the idea. Only 1 suitable site, which is very controversial.
Weston (A370/A371) - Near the rounadabout where the A370/A371 join in Weston-super-Mare. Proposed to relieve traffic mainly on Summer days with people visiting, guess it could also be used for people getting the bus to bristol.
Whitchurch (A37 Bristol South) - Roughly on/near the site of Bristol Barbarians RFC. Partly to serve hundreds of new homes in the Whitchurch area and the Mendips.
Hicks Gate (A4 Bristol East) - Replacing Brislington, located off the Durley Hill, Bus only section, so old site can become housing and to connect up better with A4714.
Warmley (A420) - No exact location, likely to tie into new homes/neighbourhood proposed between the old railway line and Webb's Heath as well as people from Marshfield/Wick.
Hambrook (M32) - They still propose the site to be on the allotments, even though BCC have said no to that, it is the only location planned, as other sites are proposed for housing, Highways England say it will involve a downgrading of the M32 to an A road.
Henbury (A4018) - Near the new Henbury Station, proposed to serve new housing in the West of Cribbs/Patchway area and people coming from the M5 North, taking over from the Portway site
A38 South (A38 South) - Likely to be Highridge way, I think it is proposed more as an orbital interchange.
Almondsbury (A38 North) - To serve the Thornbury area, located North of the M5 junction so would be for people travelling into Bristol from the Greater Thornbury area, rather than taking traffic from the M5
A432 (A432) - To serve the Yate Area, located North of the proposed M4 J18A junction so would be for people travelling into Bristol from the Greater Yate area, rather than taking traffic from the M4

I will post my own answer afterwards, I would just like to know peoples views.

• Bath East (A4 Bath East) - Still on the list, even though BaNES keeps scrapping the idea, it pops up again after a few months
  • It has again appeared on the metrobus map for the Bristol to Bath on the JLTP. It is the obvious gap in the P&R provision and it does make sense but if it isn't Bathampton Meadows, I struggle to see where they can put it. There was talk of the old Bath Rugby practice pitch at Lambrook but that's not a big site - probably smaller than Lansdown and no scope for expansion.
• Weston (A370/A371) - Near the rounadabout where the A370/A371 join in Weston-super-Mare (Mud)
  • Don't know
• Whitchurch (A37 Bristol South) - Roughly on/near the site of Bristol Barbarians RFC
  • I can't see this honestly. Firstly, the traffic from the A37 at Whitchurch isn't that heavy in rush hour; if it's heavy, it might queue from the Maes Knoll to the bridge but that's only 1/4 mile. The worst hold ups are places like Happy Landings and Airport Road. There's also the issue of disportionately high numbers of lorries so I'm not certain how much impact a Whitchurch P&R will have. Moreover, there's not a great deal of scope for bus lanes so the buses will be caught in the same traffic anyway.
• Hicks Gate (A4 Bristol East) - Replacing Brislington, located off the Durley Hill, Bus only section
  • It would be a better location but I can't it happening in the near future, not least because Brislington exists. I know that the plan would be to replace Briz but with an existing facility, I can't see it being a priority if ever.
• Warmley (A420) - No exact location, likely to tie into new homes/neighbourhood proposed between the old railway line and Webb's Heath
  • Questionable - can't see where or why
• Hambrook (M32) - They still propose the site to be on the allotments, even though BCC have said no to that, it is the only location planned
  • Almost the opposite of Whitchurch - a clear need and existing bus priority infrastructure in place. However, it needs a good location. A possible might be something around the metrobus/Stoke Gifford bypass.
• Henbury (A4018) - Near the new Henbury Station
  • Don't know but see Almondsbury
• A38 South (A38 South) - Likely to be Highridge way
  • Can't see this happening at all. Not when you've got traffic coming down that can divert down the SBRR and into Long Ashton which is already on metrobus
• Almondsbury (A38 North) - To serve the Thornbury area
  • Can't see this happening if Henbury opens? Otherwise, what would Henbury's park and ride be for.... people from Hallen?
• A432 (A432) - To serve the Yate Area
  • Don't know but perhaps tied in with J18A

EDIT: Appreciate that you've expanded your text from earlier but don't think it materially changes anything from what I said.

In terms of sites at Henbury AND Almondsbury, it really would be a duplication. If you're talking about the latter serving Thornbury (rather than taking traffic from the M5)....that's a town of 12k people, and even tying in the hinterland, it's not a great deal of people.

As for Whitchurch, with loads of extra homes in the area, why are they going to need a P&R? The people are already there! Also, there aren't loads of new homes going up in the Mendip (BaNES) area. Quite simply, they've created a plan to largely protect the Chew Valley and hence development is focused very much on brownfield sites in Bath, but more prominently in Norton Radstock and people there gravitate much more to Bath for shopping and work. Interesting note is that of the feedback gained, objections to a Whitchurch P&R were quite high!

The reality is that there are a wealth of good intentions that are contained within the JLTP that will not come to fruition. Some of the Park and Rides that they list fit into that category. They admit that the northern M32 is the biggest gap to plug, and they will need to do something there. With Henbury station brings the opportunity for a rail based P&R.

However, I reckon FWIW that when they look at a) expanding Long Ashton and b) a new A38 South location, it won't be tricky to see which one comes first. I reckon if half of those appear by 2036, it would be extremely surprising. I think the M32, the Yate road one tied in with a new J18A, and expansion of Long Ashton, and a Henbury rail one are the ones with the greatest likelihood.

The others will be connected using Marvin's Marvellous Metro system......

 

[freetoview33]

As said my views are the following of where sites should be:

Portway (A4 Bristol West) - 500 spaces, expand site and target people coming from the M5 South (South West) and people coming from the M49 (South Wales)
Long Ashton (A370 Bristol) - 1,500 spaces, expand site, it does well with where it is.
Hicks Gate (A4 Bristol East) - Replacing Brislington, up to 2000 spaces, it is well used.
Weston (A370/A371) - They obviously believe there is a demand, but from what I can see that is only really for Weekends and the Summer when tourism is higher, but might be useful as a Park & ride site for people travelling into Bristol on weekdays.
Lyde Green (New) (A432) - I would support this if it's location was moved to the site of the Sainsburys Distribution centre (IF the new motorway junction is located at Westerleigh Road as planned, rather than directly on the A432 and there was improved connections to Yate and A432 (Via Henleigh Road as planned) I do appreciate the cost would be high of buying the land, but it could then be used to capture traffic coming along the M4 from Swindon/London before they reach the M32, it could also replace Lyde Green.
Whitchurch (A37 Bristol South) - I think it is a useful site to have, even if it is just 500 spaces, I think it would get used, admittedly never really busy.
Brabazon (A38 Bristol North) - I admit there would be issues here, BUT it could combine a lot of things into 1 site. - I would co-locate it, with the proposed arena car park or as an extension of it, it would have a railway station with it, it would catch people from Thornbury, M48 and M5 North, it would remove the need for Almondsbury, M32 and A4018 sites. Otherwise there are 3 problems with this idea, 1 being how do you convince people to use this over the M32? 2 What route would the bus take, I guess it could use Gypsy Patch Lane/Winterbourne Road/Stoke Gifford Transport Link then the M32, as most of this would be via Bus Lanes. 3 How would you deal with capacity between Aztec West and the site?
Lansdown (?? Bath North) - 878 spaces
Odd Down (A367 Bath South) - 1,230 spaces
Newbridge (A4 Bath West) - 698 spaces
Bath East (A4 Bath East) - I believe the traffic to be quite bad here and do echo the thought of TGW on this one.


Sites that should close:
Brislington - For the reasons mentioned above.
Lyde Green (Old/Current site) - If the other site went ahead there would be little to no need of a site here, I still debate the real need of it as opposed to just a local car park for Lyde Green.

Proposals I wouldn't take forward:
Warmley (A420) - I really don't see a need for it, I do see a need for an improved service for the Warmley/Bridgeyate area with the new proposed housing, but this would be better done by a new or redirected local bus service.
A38 South (A38 South) - Again don't see a need with easy access to Long Ashton, and the proposed Barrow Gurney Bypass (Which is still proposed) and the current SBLR.
Hambrook (M32) - As above
Henbury (A4018) - As above
Almondsbury (A38 North) - As above

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

As said my views are the following of where sites should be:

Portway (A4 Bristol West) - 500 spaces, expand site and target people coming from the M5 South (South West) and people coming from the M49 (South Wales)
Long Ashton (A370 Bristol) - 1,500 spaces, expand site, it does well with where it is.
Hicks Gate (A4 Bristol East) - Replacing Brislington, up to 2000 spaces, it is well used.
Weston (A370/A371) - They obviously believe there is a demand, but from what I can see that is only really for Weekends and the Summer when tourism is higher, but might be useful as a Park & ride site for people travelling into Bristol on weekdays.
Lyde Green (New) (A432) - I would support this if it's location was moved to the site of the Sainsburys Distribution centre (IF the new motorway junction is located at Westerleigh Road as planned, rather than directly on the A432 and there was improved connections to Yate and A432 (Via Henleigh Road as planned) I do appreciate the cost would be high of buying the land, but it could then be used to capture traffic coming along the M4 from Swindon/London before they reach the M32, it could also replace Lyde Green.
Whitchurch (A37 Bristol South) - I think it is a useful site to have, even if it is just 500 spaces, I think it would get used, admittedly never really busy.
Brabazon (A38 Bristol North) - I admit there would be issues here, BUT it could combine a lot of things into 1 site. - I would co-locate it, with the proposed arena car park or as an extension of it, it would have a railway station with it, it would catch people from Thornbury, M48 and M5 North, it would remove the need for Almondsbury, M32 and A4018 sites. Otherwise there are 3 problems with this idea, 1 being how do you convince people to use this over the M32? 2 What route would the bus take, I guess it could use Gypsy Patch Lane/Winterbourne Road/Stoke Gifford Transport Link then the M32, as most of this would be via Bus Lanes. 3 How would you deal with capacity between Aztec West and the site?
Lansdown (?? Bath North) - 878 spaces
Odd Down (A367 Bath South) - 1,230 spaces
Newbridge (A4 Bath West) - 698 spaces
Bath East (A4 Bath East) - I believe the traffic to be quite bad here and do echo the thought of TGW on this one.


Sites that should close:
Brislington - For the reasons mentioned above.
Lyde Green (Old/Current site) - If the other site went ahead there would be little to no need of a site here, I still debate the real need of it as opposed to just a local car park for Lyde Green.

Proposals I wouldn't take forward:
Warmley (A420) - I really don't see a need for it, I do see a need for an improved service for the Warmley/Bridgeyate area with the new proposed housing, but this would be better done by a new or redirected local bus service.
A38 South (A38 South) - Again don't see a need with easy access to Long Ashton, and the proposed Barrow Gurney Bypass (Which is still proposed) and the current SBLR.
Hambrook (M32) - As above
Henbury (A4018) - As above
Almondsbury (A38 North) - As above

Lyde Green would probably not be needed but to be honest, it's just a car park with no facilities so closing it wouldn't save you anything. Whilst it gets the odd bus passenger, I suspect it it provides some additional parking for those businesses and the NHS centre on the other side of the science park!!

If and when J18A appears, I'd also suggest that it would negate the requirement for anything around Warmley.

Whitchurch just wouldn't have any real need. I drive the A37 fairly regularly and just can't see the need and it still doesn't get away from the issue of a lack of bus priority - aside from a short lane south to the Airport Road junction, it's only the drop from Totterdown to Three Lamps.

The M32/Stoke Gifford one seems to be the obvious one, and Bath East also - IIRC, the A4 London Road is the most polluted road in Bath and traffic in peak can run from the Cleveland Bridge all the way down. Unfortunately, it is those sites with the best business case that seem to have the greatest issue with potential locations. With a new Henbury station, it seems more obvious to put a big car park there though @carlberry is right that a rail based P&R will have only limited benefit to city centre flows.

 

[-Colly405-]

Don't forget that there is another (very) underused P&R car park on Hunts Ground Rd, sitting just waiting for metrobus to run past it as it goes into Parkway. It already has its metrobus machines, named "Parkway P&R".

 

[carlberry]

Don't forget that there is another (very) underused P&R car park on Hunts Ground Rd, sitting just waiting for metrobus to run past it as it goes into Parkway. It already has its metrobus machines, named "Parkway P&R".

Metrobus running past it wont make a difference to the reason it's empty (the cost).

 

[freetoview33]

Don't forget that there is another (very) underused P&R car park on Hunts Ground Rd, sitting just waiting for metrobus to run past it as it goes into Parkway. It already has its metrobus machines, named "Parkway P&R".

It's basically just an overflow Car Park for Parkway. The problem we face is having too many small sites that are not viable. Although they are looking at the possibility of using sites overnight as lorry parks and transport hubs, still sites like Warmley would never be busy enough to warrant a regular enough bus service to actually encourage people to use the site. I admit you would expect most sites to require funding but that should be minimal. Some of the ones mentioned would be either glorified car parks with the authority spending millions to transport fresh air.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Metrobus running past it wont make a difference to the reason it's empty (the cost).

I know I'm being thick but is that a tricky problem to solve? If it's cheaper than the parking at the station, people are going to park there and walk. Charge for it and people won't use it. Or am I missing something?