Paris Zone system for singles is to be scrapped in 2025

[signed]

https://www.ouest-france.fr/economie/transports/ratp/rer-trains-et-metros-un-tarif-unique-mis-en-place-en-ile-de-france-a-partir-de-2025-2894c1a3-5203-45b9-a225-4636e8ef7fb0

L’autorité régionale des transports Ile-de-France Mobilités (IDFM) mettra en place en janvier 2025 un tarif unique, avec un ticket de métro, train ou RER à 2,50 € dans toute la région parisienne, selon une information du quotidien le Parisien confirmée mardi 17 septembre 2024 au soir par IDFM à l’AFP.

The regional transport authority Ile-de-France Mobilités (IDFM) will introduce a single fare in January 2025, with a metro, train or RER ticket priced at €2.50 throughout the Paris region, according to information from the daily Le Parisien confirmed by IDFM to AFP on the evening of Tuesday September 17, 2024.

The ticket price is a bit steep (up from €2.15) especially if you only stay in Z1 (and will likely have a carve out for airports) but as a whole a good thing for everyone (the zoning system already hasn't been a thing for period passes (apart from day) for years)

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Interesting... so a single journey from, say, Pontoise to Montereau would be just €2.50?

There's some seriously long other journeys from one extremity of zone 5 to the other extremity that would come under this - although it's immediately obvious that if you are doing a return trip like that more than four times a week and have a Navigo then the Navigo remains the lower cost option doesn't it?

 

[signed]

Interesting... so a single journey from, say, Pontoise to Montereau would be just €2.50?

As long as you stay on Metro, RER or train yes

There's some seriously long other journeys from one extremity of zone 5 to the other extremity that would come under this - although it's immediately obvious that if you are doing a return trip like that more than four times a week and have a Navigo then the Navigo remains the lower cost option doesn't it?

[From IDFM website]

A Weekly Navigo is €30.75 and a Monthly is €86.40, so if you do a return trip 6x in a week (6*5), you'll pay less than the Weekly. You would break even on the Monthly pass after 16 returns.

 

[SHD]

A Weekly Navigo is €30.75 and a Monthly is €86.40, so if you do a return trip 6x in a week (6*5), you'll pay less than the Weekly. You would break even on the Monthly pass after 16 returns.

Not only that, but companies must by law cover at least 50% of employees' season tickets (*), which puts the break-even threshold somewhere between 2 and 3 round-trips per week.

(*) of course there are subtleties. Employers have the legal obligation to cover at least 50% of public transport season tickets or cycle share fees. Employers can opt for a more generous "sustainable mobility benefit" up to €800/year/person, but this generally involves negotiations with trade unions.

 

[signed]

Not only that, but companies must by law cover at least 50% of employees' season tickets (*), which puts the break-even threshold somewhere between 2 and 3 round-trips per week.

(*) of course there are subtleties. Employers have the legal obligation to cover at least 50% of public transport season tickets or cycle share fees. Employers can opt for a more generous "sustainable mobility benefit" up to €800/year/person, but this generally involves negotiations with trade unions.

Indeed

 

[AY1975]

I understand that paper tickets, whether for journeys within the current zone 1 (ticket t+) or for longer journeys within Greater Paris, will no longer be available from 2nd January 2025 when the new fares regime comes into force, but any unused paper tickets bought before this date can still be used until 31st December 2025.

What's not clear, though, is if you have an unused paper "ticket t+", will you then be able to use it for any journey within Greater Paris by any mode of transport (bus, tram, metro, RER or Transilien train) or only for travel within the current zone 1? And with buses and trams having a different fare from the Metro, RER and Transilien under the new regime, will you still be able to use such a ticket on buses and trams as well as on the Metro, RER and Transilien trains?

Then there's the question of whether paper tickets that haven't been used by the 31st December 2025 deadline will then simply become worthless or can be exchanged for electronic tickets on a Navigo Easy smartcard or via the RATP app.

 

[signed]

And with buses and trams having a different fare from the Metro, RER and Transilien under the new regime, will you still be able to use such a ticket on buses and trams as well as on the Metro, RER and Transilien trains?

You've never been allowed to make a rail to/from bus connection on the same ticket. So it's nothing changing for the old and I'm pretty sure they would be valid on both

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 Oct 2024 ==

Then there's the question of whether paper tickets that haven't been used by the 31st December 2025 deadline will then simply become worthless or can be exchanged for electronic tickets on a Navigo Easy smartcard or via the RATP app.

The usual way that paper ticket withdrawals are made in France is that they're going to be exchangable for a limited time either immediately before or after the end of validity.

For Paris in particular, there are still a lot of them in circulation. Though there may be a fee to do that per ticket (but that's speculation)

 

[rvdborgt]

I wonder how long the carnet of 10 (on a mobile phone) will remain valid if I buy one now. Price will go up considerably if you live outside the Paris region and used carnets up to now: from €1.73 to €2.50.
The cardboard carnets seemed to remain valid forever, as long as they didn't become demagnetised.

 

[stadler]

What is happening with the few RER stations and few Transilien stations that are outside of the Ile De France region? Will these be included in the EUR2.50 flat fare?

 

[johncrossley]

You've never been allowed to make a rail to/from bus connection on the same ticket.

Why not? That's an anomaly compared to most cities in France and most neighbouring countries.

 

[dutchflyer]

Why not? That's an anomaly compared to most cities in France and most neighbouring countries.

Not quite-many more FR cities have that. Age old difference between city-owned ´transports local´ and state-owned utter burocratic railways. In fact I kind of think the majority of larger cities where the railways play a significant role also in urban transit (as such an exception) still have that.
Its more the german and scandinavian speaking areas where integration is the norm. In northern BE, even further NL where I live and southern ES its also more of an exception.
BUT: assuming that most normal travellers-not married with trains rail fuzzies- make a return trip to visit some place/family or the like, a daypass would cover this, include all and also be the cheapest option for the ´isle of FR´ region. And those travelling by ´trsp public´ more often will have whatever kind of season covering it all.
Still I wonder what the answer is to what rian v.d. borgt asked above.

 

[johncrossley]

Not quite-many more FR cities have that. Age old difference between city-owned ´transports local´ and state-owned utter burocratic railways.

I'm aware that national railways often have a separate fare system. But I'm talking about city owned metro and city owned buses. In Lille, for example, a ticket can be used to transfer from metro to buses (but not SNCF trains). Whereas in Paris, you can't transfer from city owned metro to city owned buses.

 

[signed]

What is happening with the few RER stations and few Transilien stations that are outside of the Ile De France region? Will these be included in the EUR2.50 flat fare?

As they are the hated child of the RER network (you can't even find the fares online), I would wander and guess it will be a separate outboundary fare on top of the EUR2.50 fare

 

[stadler]

As they are the hated child of the RER network (you can't even find the fares online), I would wander and guess it will be a separate outboundary fare on top of the EUR2.50 fare

Well it turns out that the EUR2.50 fare actually does cover all RER stations and all Transilien stations even outside of the Ile De France region. If you search for journeys from Paris to any of these stations on the RATP website it gives a EUR2.50 fare. So for just EUR2.50 you can go as far as Chateau Thierry / Creil / Gisors / Vernon Giverny / Dreux / Montereau / Montargis / Crepy En Valois / Le Ferte Milon / Malesherbes etc which are all miles from Paris city centre. For people who commute in to Paris every day from these places it will be a massive saving. For one example Chateau Thierry to Dreux is almost the same distance as London to Birmingham and will now cost EUR2.50 single. This is amazing value for money. It makes you realise how much of a rip off our UK fares are.

 

[WibbleWobble]

Well it turns out that the EUR2.50 fare actually does cover all RER stations and all Transilien stations even outside of the Ile De France region. If you search for journeys from Paris to any of these stations on the RATP website it gives a EUR2.50 fare. So for just EUR2.50 you can go as far as Chateau Thierry / Creil / Gisors / Vernon Giverny / Dreux / Montereau / Montargis / Crepy En Valois / Le Ferte Milon / Malesherbes etc which are all miles from Paris city centre. For people who commute in to Paris every day from these places it will be a massive saving. For one example Chateau Thierry to Dreux is almost the same distance as London to Birmingham and will now cost EUR2.50 single. This is amazing value for money. It makes you realise how much of a rip off our UK fares are.

I wonder if that could be an error - if you were to use the Île-de-France Mobilités journey planner, there are no fares available for Dreux to Gare Montparnasse, but tweak it to Houdan, which is just inside the region then you get €2.50. The network map states stations like Dreux, Vernon Giverny etc are "Tarification hors Île-de-France" (pricing outside Île-de-France).

 

[CC 72100]

I wonder if that could be an error - if you were to use the Île-de-France Mobilités journey planner, there are no fares available for Dreux to Gare Montparnasse, but tweak it to Houdan, which is just inside the region then you get €2.50. The network map states stations like Dreux, Vernon Giverny etc are "Tarification hors Île-de-France" (pricing outside Île-de-France).

Indeed - 2.50 for such a journey is practically too cheap. I also wonder whether there is a pricing difference between the TER and Transilien services if such a low cost is true?

 

[stadler]

I wonder if that could be an error - if you were to use the Île-de-France Mobilités journey planner, there are no fares available for Dreux to Gare Montparnasse, but tweak it to Houdan, which is just inside the region then you get €2.50. The network map states stations like Dreux, Vernon Giverny etc are "Tarification hors Île-de-France" (pricing outside Île-de-France).

Indeed - 2.50 for such a journey is practically too cheap. I also wonder whether there is a pricing difference between the TER and Transilien services if such a low cost is true?

I would be surprised if they made a mistake. They knew about the changes for months i thought they would have programmed the fares in to the journey planner properly. I also thought maybe they wanted to include the RER stations and Transilien stations outside of the Ile De France region so that they could simplify things and completely scrap point to point tickets. But maybe you are right and it is a mistake.

I am surprised how there is zero information online ablut whether the RER stations and Transilien stations outside of the Ile De France region are included. You would think this would be a popular question. They seem to have just ignored the subject. I would email RATP or IDFM and ask but my French language knowledge is very poor.

Another question that i can not find the answer to is whether the EUR2.50 tickets are valid on TER services within the Ile De France region? There are many journeys possible on TER services entirely within the Ile De France region. Paris St Lazare to Mantes La Jolie or Paris Nord to Persan Beaumont or Paris Montparnasse to Versailles Chantiers are just a couple examples of dozens of possible TER journeys. Has anyone found any clear answer to wherever the EUR2.50 ticket is valid on TER services within the Ile De France region?

 

[DeverseSam]

Another question that i can not find the answer to is whether the EUR2.50 tickets are valid on TER services within the Ile De France region? There are many journeys possible on TER services entirely within the Ile De France region. Paris St Lazare to Mantes La Jolie or Paris Nord to Persan Beaumont or Paris Montparnasse to Versailles Chantiers are just a couple examples of dozens of possible TER journeys. Has anyone found any clear answer to wherever the EUR2.50 ticket is valid on TER services within the Ile De France region?

The SNCF Connect site will sell a ticket Paris - Chartres but not Paris - Versailles for the same train.

Therefore it seems the only possible ticket for Paris - Versailles is the 2.50 one regardless of the type of train

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Jan 2025 ==

I am surprised how there is zero information online ablut whether the RER stations and Transilien stations outside of the Ile De France region are included. You would think this would be a popular question.

I guess it’s hidden away on x / bluesky / specialist forums. Everyone’s worried about LLMs scraping their forums etc so this stuff isn’t as google-able as it used to be

 

[signed]

Therefore it seems the only possible ticket for Paris - Versailles is the 2.50 one regardless of the type of train

Any trip (except on OUIGO or TGV) between IDF region station is 2.50, train type is irrelevant as long as you have validated your pass.

| Île-de-France Mobilités

www.iledefrance-mobilites.fr

Le Ticket Métro-Train-RER sur passe Navigo Easy et sur téléphone permet de voyager sur :

• Les lignes du métro en Île-de-France, sauf entrée/sortie à la station ferré aéroportuaire « Aéroport d’Orly » ;
• Les lignes de RER et de train en Île-de-France, sauf entrée/sortie des stations ferrées aéroportuaires « Aéroport Charles De Gaulle 1 » et « Aéroport Charles De Gaulle 2 TGV »
• Les lignes de tram express (T11, T12, T13);
• Le funiculaire de Montmartre ;
• Les lignes Intercités et TER en Île-de-France

The Metro-Train-RER on Navigo Easy smartcard and on phone allows travel on:

• Intercités and TER Lines in Ile-de-France

I am surprised how there is zero information online ablut whether the RER stations and Transilien stations outside of the Ile De France region are included

Basically nobody cares about them, they are the middle child of the network, except maybe the Gisors branch as it is a bit touristic

But it is clear a supplementary fare is required, I might FOIA them to get a clear answer.

Le ticket Métro-Train-RER dématérialisé ne permet pas de voyager sur :

• Les lignes de tramway (T1 à T10)
• Tous les bus et les cars Noctilien
• Les Tzen
• OrlyBus, RoissyBus, OrlyVal, Filéo
• Les stations ferrées aéroportuaires « Aéroport d’Orly », « Aéroport Charles de Gaulle 1 » et « Aéroport Charles De Gaulle 2 TGV »
• Les gares RER et Train situées hors Île-de-France
• Les lignes grande vitesse (TGV …)

The Metro-Train-RER on Navigo Easy smartcard and on phone doesn't allow travel on:

• RER and Train stations outside of the Ile-de-France region

 

[U-Bahnfreund]

https://www.transilien.com/fr/page-tarifs/ticket-origine-destination

Les tickets Origine - Destination hors île de France continuent d’être distribués, à l’unité uniquement, dans les gares concernées, les carnets de tickets Origine - Destination ne sont plus commercialisés, le prix d’un ticket Origine - Destination est désormais de 2,50€ (et 1,25€ au tarif réduit), tout comme le Ticket Métro-Train-RER.

Origin-Destination tickets outside the Ile-de-France region will continue to be distributed, in single units only, at the stations concerned. Booklets of Origin-Destination tickets are no longer sold, and the price of an Origin-Destination ticket is now €2.50 (and €1.25 at the reduced fare), as is the Ticket Métro-Train-RER.

 

[signed]

https://www.transilien.com/fr/page-tarifs/ticket-origine-destination

I love how that can mean everything, is it EUR2.50 outside the region, so that would make a trip outside the region EUR5...

 

[stadler]

https://www.transilien.com/fr/page-tarifs/ticket-origine-destination

So if i have understood that correctly, the fare for journeys to or from RER and Transilien stations outside of the Ile De France region is still a flat EUR2.50 fare, but you have have specify your origin and destination rather than using the standard EUR2.50 ticket? So basically it still costs the same and has the same validity, but you have to specify your origin and destination on the ticket, where as for journeys within Ile De France that is not necessary? If so that seems completely and utterly bonkers! If it costs the same then why not just make the standard EUR2.50 ticket valid to RER and Transilien stations outside of Ile De France instead of making you buy a different ticket type which costs exactly the same!

 

[DeverseSam]

This shows a 2,50 origin-destination ticket bought this year, courtesy of Vivian Gueant on X.

 

[stadler]

This shows a 2,50 origin-destination ticket bought this year, courtesy of Vivian Gueant on X.

Presumably that is for Le Mee Sur Seine station? If so then that station is well within the Ile De France region. It is quite a distance from the border. So i fail to understand why a EUR2.50 point to point ticket would have been issued instead of the new EUR2.50 flat rate ticket. I thought the point to point tickets within the Ile De France region had been replaced by the flat rate ticket. Was that ticket definitely issued this year and not last year before the fare changes started?

 

[SHD]

I do not think that single "billets origine-destination" tickets for these "limbo" stations outside IDF but served only by Transilien/RER trains are covered by the €2.5 flat fee, and this is almost guaranteed to cause (admittedly very local) problems at stations such as Chars, Boigneville, etc. These are the furthest stations within IDF where the flat fee applies, and it will be much, much cheaper for local residents to drive there for occasional trips.

Even for commuter journeys - which represent the overwhelming majority of these stations' patronage (there are not that many tourists in Malesherbes or Gisors, although the latter is actually a nice little town with interesting monuments and history) - there will probably be an overflow towards these stations, as the journey price with a "Navigo Liberté plus" will be €1.99.

 

[DeverseSam]

Presumably that is for Le Mee Sur Seine station? If so then that station is well within the Ile De France region.

I think so. The fare last year was probably 5 euro so it looks to have been issued this year

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Jan 2025 ==

Another person on X thinks Malesherbes is covered by the new tariff but the others aren’t.

We’ll have to wait for other reports

 

[stadler]

I have just realised another bonkers thing that this new ticket has caused with the trams. The previous t+ EUR2.15 ticket for all modes of transport has been replaced with a EUR2.00 bus ticket and a EUR2.50 rail (Metro & RER & Transilien & TER) ticket for all zones. But with trams it has become extremely confusing.

Tram lines T1 T2 T3 T4 T5 T6 T7 T8 T9 T10 only accept the new EUR2.00 bus ticket.

Tram lines T11 T12 T13 only accept the new EUR2.50 rail ticket.

So you need a different ticket depending on which tram lines you want to use and neither ticket is valid on all tram lines. You need two tickets if you want to transfer between certain tram lines. What an utter mess.

Why could they not just simplify it to one ticket. Surely having one simple ticket valid on all different modes (Bus & Tram & Metro & RER & Transilien & TER) would have made so much more sense. Even if it was priced at EUR2.50 each (meaning bus journeys are slightly more expensive) i still would have preferred that as this current situation is a mess.

 

[signed]

Tram lines T11 T12 T13 only accept the new EUR2.50 rail ticket.

Those are express monikered (as they are tram-trains) and have always been under the heavy rail fare since their beginning

Why could they not just simplify it to one ticket

That is not the goal. The goal is to charge more overall. And it's sad. The other thing is that it's probably as a preparation for the future tendering of the network and the disappearance of RATP as we know it, and others according to EU law.

 

[SHD]

Tram lines T11 T12 T13 only accept the new EUR2.50 rail ticket.

So you need a different ticket depending on which tram lines you want to use and neither ticket is valid on all tram lines. You need two tickets if you want to transfer between certain tram lines. What an utter mess.

As noticed by signed, the previous T+ ticket was never valid on trams 11/12/13.

That is not the goal. The goal is to charge more overall. And it's sad

No, that's most probably not the goal, not concerning single ticket users anyway - the cows being slightly milked are the Navigo mensuel/Intégrale subscribers. If anything, Île-de-France Mobilités' 2025 budget report foresees a €30m net decrease in fares revenue (conjunction of a €50m drop in revenue due to the new single fares structure and a €20m increase in revenue attributed to the new airport fares - to Stadler's utter displeasure - and to other various adjustments).

https://portail-idfm.cdn.prismic.io/portail-idfm/Z1qkdZbqstJ98X_K_RapportBP2025.pdf page 8

 

[Timmyd]

Was in Paris this weekend and the tickets, while amazing value, are confusing. Auber to Marne le Vallee (45 mins or so) €2.50 adult €1.25 child. Yet Auber to Charles de Gaulle Etoile (one stop) you can only buy a T+ which doesn’t appear to offer a child fare, so it cost more for the 3 of us! Tiny sums and great value so not complaining, just a strange discrepancy. Unless I was doing something wrong?