Paris to Dieppe, rolling stock and tickets

[route101]

Looking at travelling this route soon at the weekend. Do you need to purchase a ticket in advance? Is there seat reservations? Looks like you have to change at Rouen.

 

[signed]

Only double-decker Omnéo Premium units (very nice ones) are running to/from Paris Saint-Lazare

To/From Paris are seat reservations, included with your ticket. On the Rouen-Dieppe train, no reservation needed.

Two types of tickets to/from Paris, Flex (valid every train of the same day, but without seat guarenteed on other trains than booked), Semi-Flex (valid booked-train only) (along with a no-seat "jumpseat" very last minute option that you won't likely encounter).

Outside of Paris, all tickets are valid on any train of the day.

Buy in advance, can sell out

 

[P Binnersley]

The Man in Seat61 gives details on London-Newhaven-Dieppe-Paris.

Most journeys have a change in Rouen. Last Summer there was one through Dieppe-Paris train on Saturdays, but I don't know how it tied in with the ferry.

You can buy Dieppe-Paris tickets on the day, but there are cheaper "Tempo" (advance) tickets if you book ahead. You can buy e-tickets at https://www.sncf-connect.com/ (or other retailers).

Seat reservations are available Rouen-Paris (and from what I saw recommended as the trains were very busy).

If you are lucky enough to be under 26 you can get 50% off trains in Normandy and to Paris (no railcard needed).

 

[signed]

Seat reservations are available Rouen-Paris (and from what I saw recommended as the trains were very busy).

Mandatory unless you are travelling with a Flex on another train than booked or season ticket

 

[williamn]

Back in the early 90’s Dieppe station was a pretty busy affair with I think trains running on the old direct line to Paris. Quite sad to see it reduced to a not even hourly shuttle to Rouen now.

 

[route101]

Yes, helpful. I am taking the ferry on the Sunday and staying over in Dieppe.

 

[Gordon]

Back in the early 90’s Dieppe station was a pretty busy affair with I think trains running on the old direct line to Paris. Quite sad to see it reduced to a not even hourly shuttle to Rouen now.

Your memory is playing tricks I'm afraid. Dieppe has always been a typical SNCF service- with long gaps in the timetable, and the direct line to Serqueux ("the old direct line to Paris") closed in 1988.

The current timetable of almost hourly trains to Rouen is far better than the 'good old days'...

In fact Dieppe Ville station has been modernised recently and - on my first visit there for over 30 years last December I was very impressed with the appearance compared to the old days of decaying infrastructure.

 

[williamn]

Your memory is playing tricks I'm afraid. Dieppe has always been a typical SNCF service- with long gaps in the timetable, and the direct line to Serqueux ("the old direct line to Paris") closed in 1988.

The current timetable of almost hourly trains to Rouen is far better than the 'good old days'...

In fact Dieppe Ville station has been modernised recently and - on my first visit there for over 30 years last December I was very impressed with the appearance compared to the old days of decaying infrastructure.

Ha, the unreliability of childhood memories! The Marine station was still there when I visited as a kid.

 

[stadler]

Looking at travelling this route soon at the weekend. Do you need to purchase a ticket in advance? Is there seat reservations? Looks like you have to change at Rouen.

No need to book anything in advance. I use this route multiple times a year and have never booked in advance. Just turn up and buy it at the station.

The ferry is a set price for foot passengers regardless of whether you book in advance or just turn up and buy on the day at the ferry port. It costs £31.00 single or £46.00 return within five days or £62.00 return within more than five days. So you might as well just buy it at the port. It is unheard of for foot passenger tickets to sell out on this route.

Train tickets can be bought at Dieppe railway station on the day. You have to take one train from Dieppe to Rouen and then another Rouen to Paris train. But you can get a through ticket for the whole journey.

Unfortunately the TER services in France keep getting worse and worse and they introduced these bonkers compulsory reservations recently. It is crazy as these are local short distance frequent regional services equivalent to London to Brighton or London to Guildford or London to Tonbridge etc. SNCF have no clue what they are doing.

TER Normandie have four categories of trains (Citi / Krono / Krono+ / Proxi) they use. The compulsory reservations only apply on Krono and Krono+ trains to and from Paris. They do not apply on Citi or Proxi services or on Krono or Krono+ services that are not to or from Paris.

This means that Dieppe to Rouen does not have any compulsory reservations. Rouen to Paris unfortunately does have compulsory reservations if you travel on the Krono or Krono+ trains. However the route is also served by slightly slower stopping Citi trains. So i would personally recommend just taking the stopping Citi trains for the Rouen to Paris part of your journey. They only take about ten to fifteen minutes longer and you do not have to worry about the nonsense compulsory reservations. So using the Citi trains is what i always do.

Also for your information you can download timetables in PDF format here:

Rechercher une fiche horaire | SNCF TER Normandie

www.ter.sncf.com

This is the Dieppe to Rouen timetable:

https://ter-fiches-horaires.sncf.fr/publish/Fiche%20horaires%20ROUEN-DIEPPE%20du%205%20juillet%20au%2031%20ao%C3%83%C2%BBt%202025.pdf

This is the Rouen to Paris timetable:

https://ter-fiches-horaires.sncf.fr/publish/Fiches%20Horaires%20ROUEN-PARIS%20du%205%20juillet%20au%2031%20ao%C3%83%C2%BBt%202025-.pdf

I find these more useful than the usual journey planners for planning my train journey.

 

[EUC]

If memory serves me correctly, I last took the boat train service from London to Paris via Newhaven-Dieppe in 1993. I remember Dieppe Maritime being amazingly convenient from ship to train. It really is a shame that all the old dockside terminal stations serving the cross-Channel trade have now disappeared. "Progress" they call it.

 

[James H]

The Avenue Verte cycle route along the old line out of Dieppe is fantastic

 

[Thames99]

At Dieppe there is a bus to and from the station connecting with boats. When I was last there the direct route was closed as a bridge over the harbour was being repaired, so the journey by road was longer than normal. A temporary footbridge had been set up and it is quite possible to walk it and save 3 Euros (cash only but they will accept Pounds or Euros) if you're so inclined.

 

[stadler]

At Dieppe there is a bus to and from the station connecting with boats. When I was last there the direct route was closed as a bridge over the harbour was being repaired, so the journey by road was longer than normal. A temporary footbridge had been set up and it is quite possible to walk it and save 3 Euros (cash only but they will accept Pounds or Euros) if you're so inclined.

I always just walk from the ferry terminal to the railway station. It is only about twenty minutes to walk so it is fairly easy. Plus you save some money too.

 

[Jamesrob637]

However, the line south of Serqueux through Forges-les-Eaux is open again since recent years.

 

[williamn]

Slightly off topic but apparently the ferry route is under threat as Brittany Ferries has gone to court to challenge the level of subsidy DFDS receives.

Newhaven - Dieppe ferry route grants spark £125m lawsuit

Brittany Ferries says grants DFDS receives to run its Newhaven-Dieppe route has cost it £125m.

www.bbc.co.uk

"A ferry company says it has launched legal action to sue a shipping company for £125m of losses sustained because of the "vast subsidies" given to its competitor."

 

[stadler]

Slightly off topic but apparently the ferry route is under threat as Brittany Ferries has gone to court to challenge the level of subsidy DFDS receives.

Newhaven - Dieppe ferry route grants spark £125m lawsuit

Brittany Ferries says grants DFDS receives to run its Newhaven-Dieppe route has cost it £125m.

www.bbc.co.uk

"A ferry company says it has launched legal action to sue a shipping company for £125m of losses sustained because of the "vast subsidies" given to its competitor."

I really hope it continues. Newhaven to Dieppe is by far the best ferry route to France we have. None of the others even come close. DFDS do a fantastic job on that route. Very nice ferries. Good customer service. It has the best transport connections on both sides. It is especially good for foot passengers. It is by far the cheapest. It has a very good value set price for foot passengers which you can buy on the day at the port. Also foot passengers are last on and first off (unlike some others where foot passengers are first on and last off) which avoids waiting around like on some of the others. It is such a good route and they run it very well.

I hope any legal action is unsuccessful. It is none of Brittany Ferries business what subsidy a competitor on a completely different route gets. That is between DFDS and the authority giving the subsidy. There is no law against this. I can think of dozens of examples of one public transport route getting subsidy and another competing one not. The legal action seems rather ridiculous and i doubt Brittany Ferries will have any success.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

I like Newhaven to Dieppe - it is the no hassle option - good for foot passengers (and bikes too). Brittany Ferries isn't averse to receiving subsidies from the French government either and Guernsey is paying for the 'privilege' of being served by them. It is up to the Seine Maritime department if they want to support the service and their wider area.

 

[AdamWW]

I hope any legal action is unsuccessful. It is none of Brittany Ferries business what subsidy a competitor on a completely different route gets. That is between DFDS and the authority giving the subsidy. There is no law against this. I can think of dozens of examples of one public transport route getting subsidy and another competing one not.

I'm no expert but I didn't think that's how things worked, at least in the EU.

 

[signed]

Deleted

 

[stadler]

Surely they at least have a claim that the initial tender not being awarded was illegal. As it was awarded from what I gather but Jersey pulled out.

Disclaimer: I don't know what the tender rules in Jersey are nor have I read the tender itself, but I am very interested to know if a tender being retracted after having been awarded is legal.

But i thought this is not quite the same. The ferry routes to Guernsey and Jersey are full proper contracts that get tendered out. Where as the Newhaven to Dieppe route is a commercial route that receives subsidy to support it rather than being a contract. The same thing happens with our buses. Our councils have bus contracts which get tendered out but there are also cases of commercial bus routes simply receiving some subsidy from the council to support the service. There is a difference between being a full contracted service and simply receiving some subsidy to support a service.

 

[signed]

But i thought this is not quite the same. The ferry routes to Guernsey and Jersey are full proper contracts that get tendered out. Where as the Newhaven to Dieppe route is a commercial route that receives subsidy to support it rather than being a contract. The same thing happens with our buses. Our councils have bus contracts which get tendered out but there are also cases of commercial bus routes simply receiving some subsidy from the council to support the service. There is a difference between being a full contracted service and simply receiving some subsidy to support a service.

I deleted my post because I read too fast and didn't catch that the legal action was on the Newheaven-Dieppe, sorry about that

 

[AdamWW]

Our councils have bus contracts which get tendered out but there are also cases of commercial bus routes simply receiving some subsidy from the council to support the service. There is a difference between being a full contracted service and simply receiving some subsidy to support a service.

Fascinating. I'd no idea that was permitted.

 

[RT4038]

I hope any legal action is unsuccessful. It is none of Brittany Ferries business what subsidy a competitor on a completely different route gets. That is between DFDS and the authority giving the subsidy. There is no law against this. I can think of dozens of examples of one public transport route getting subsidy and another competing one not. The legal action seems rather ridiculous and i doubt Brittany Ferries will have any success.

I would not expect Brittany Ferries to be mounting a legal case if they did not believe they had a chance of winning. It is very much their business if they believe unfair or illegal subsidies are being paid to a competitor which is then having an adverse effect on their commercial route. I doubt that Brittany Ferries views Newhaven-Dieppe as a 'completely different route' to Portsmouth-Caen, for instance, and that would be for the court to decide. I expect they would have a weaker case if comparing Newhaven-Dieppe with Plymouth-Roscoff.

Brittany Ferries isn't averse to receiving subsidies from the French government either and Guernsey is paying for the 'privilege' of being served by them. It is up to the Seine Maritime department if they want to support the service and their wider area.

No doubt any of these subsidies can be legally challenged by competitors too (but possibly aren't because they are for routes with no similar competitor, or limited duration/promotional funding?) I don't think Guernsey has any commercial services, so this case is not comparable at all.

But i thought this is not quite the same. The ferry routes to Guernsey and Jersey are full proper contracts that get tendered out. Where as the Newhaven to Dieppe route is a commercial route that receives subsidy to support it rather than being a contract. The same thing happens with our buses. Our councils have bus contracts which get tendered out but there are also cases of commercial bus routes simply receiving some subsidy from the council to support the service. There is a difference between being a full contracted service and simply receiving some subsidy to support a service.

The legal case will no doubt be centered on the extent and nature of the 'support', and how this affects the financial viability of their commercial service(s).

In the UK bus industry case, this is permitted, but there are rules about the extent/value of the subsidy. If this subsidy distorted competition with nearby commercial services then this could be legally challenged also.

 

[williamn]

I’ve no idea how this affects things legally but I guess a difference between the Newhaven Dieppe route and those operated by Brittany Ferries is that the former is a contract whereas the others are I think run on a purely commercial basis?

Presumably Brittany Ferries could have bid for the contract but didn’t?

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

Brittany Ferries' timetable between Portsmouth and Le Havre is noticeably poor this summer, with nothing on Friday, Saturday or Sunday - one would have thought these days would have had the most traffic potential! Clearly the route is in trouble, and it does duplicate their rather more lucrative Portsmouth - Ouistreham (Caen) route. Presumably this has prompted the legal action.

Off topic, Stena are abandoning their Rosslare - Cherbourg route from September and Brittany Ferries are experimenting with some Xmas and Easter sailings from Plymouth to St. Malo. To be honest St. Malo is much better for foot passengers than Roscoff, being rail connected.

 

[30907]

Brittany Ferries' timetable between Portsmouth and Le Havre is noticeably poor this summer, with nothing on Friday, Saturday or Sunday - one would have thought these days would have had the most traffic potential! Clearly the route is in trouble, and it does duplicate their rather more lucrative Portsmouth - Ouistreham (Caen) route. Presumably this has prompted the legal action.

The Commodore Clipper provides an extra sailing to Cherbourg and then Rosslare over the weekend. I suspect Le Havre is more for freight - it was certainly marketed as a basic service the one time we used it and before that ISTR it was freight-only.

 

[Gloster]

Your memory is playing tricks I'm afraid. Dieppe has always been a typical SNCF service- with long gaps in the timetable, and the direct line to Serqueux ("the old direct line to Paris") closed in 1988.

The current timetable of almost hourly trains to Rouen is far better than the 'good old days'...

In fact Dieppe Ville station has been modernised recently and - on my first visit there for over 30 years last December I was very impressed with the appearance compared to the old days of decaying infrastructure.

I believe that the northern section of the line closed in 1988 after SNCF decided to divert the remaining through trains to the Rouen route and the région it wasn’t prepared to bear the full costs of the line. Only a year or two before that I travelled over the line in a USI coach on a through train from Paris.

 

[williamn]

The current timetable of almost hourly trains to Rouen is far better than the 'good old days'...

I’ve just discovered that the Sunday service is still unfortunately appalling, 3+ hour gaps!

 

[D6130]

I believe that the northern section of the line closed in 1988 after SNCF decided to divert the remaining through trains to the Rouen route and the région it wasn’t prepared to bear the full costs of the line. Only a year or two before that I travelled over the line in a USI coach on a through train from Paris.

The original 'main line' between Dieppe and Serqueux was in appallingly bad condition by the 1980s and urgently needed either complete relaying - very expensively - or complete closure. My one and only journey over the line - in November 1986 - was on the Sunday morning boat train to St Lazare, diverted due to relaying of the junction at Malaunay, where the Le Havre and Dieppe routes diverge a short distance from Rouen. We had a BB 67400 class diesel loco and a long string of old green carriages and the whole section of the journey as far as Serqueux was limited to 40 km/h (25 mph), seemingly going on forever. The line - although still double track - was composed entirely of ancient jointed bull-head track with rotting wooden sleepers, shallow ballast and numerous wet patches....very much a railway in its final death throes. The whole direct journey from Dieppe Maritime to Paris St Lazare via Serqueux and Gisors took nearly an hour longer than the normal route with a loco change at Rouen.

 

[stuu]

However, the line south of Serqueux through Forges-les-Eaux is open again since recent years.

Astonishingly they have removed the service already because of poor passenger numbers