Parcels on Trains

[Heartland]

Stand B31 at the Railtex Exhibition (Birmingham NEC 9-11th May) had a novel method of seat collapse where passenger seats could be folded back to allow the conveyance of parcels, bicycles or wheel chairs in the space created. it had been noted by the designers that some train services have times when seating space remains unused and the concept of folding back seats would create perhaps another means of revenue in the case of parcel carriage. Not every body who visited the stand appeared to support the idea of parcels carriage as the infrastructure for such a service was lost with the passing of Red Star

 

[2HAP]

So what happens when seat has been folded back, an a passenger requires a seat, assuming there are none available that have not been folded back to make way for parcels etc?

 

[313103]

Not forgetting that many trains have got rid of a guards area where storage of parcels amongst other things use to happen.

Of course who will be responsible for the security of said item of equipment, especially when A). Most trains will be DOO in operation or B). Guards that are left will be expected to deal with passengers rather then parcels.

 

[Gemz91]

When I joined the railways as a guard/senior conductor 6 years ago, it stated in my contract that it was part of my role to transport parcels when necessary.

 

[noddingdonkey]

Being able to convert a bunch of seats would not be a bad idea for operators like TPE, so they could sacrifice a few seats (done in advance and reflected in booking systems) on airport trips where extra luggage space is sorely needed without having to give up seats when the unit is used on other routes.

 

[Scotrail84]

Parcels are sometimes conveyed in the sleeper guards vans, indeed there is a large amount of fish/crustaceans conveyed most nights in the Inverness to London guards van.

 

[GusB]

Stand B31 at the Railtex Exhibition (Birmingham NEC 9-11th May) had a novel method of seat collapse where passenger seats could be folded back to allow the conveyance of parcels, bicycles or wheel chairs in the space created. it had been noted by the designers that some train services have times when seating space remains unused and the concept of folding back seats would create perhaps another means of revenue in the case of parcel carriage. Not every body who visited the stand appeared to support the idea of parcels carriage as the infrastructure for such a service was lost with the passing of Red Star

Would this be it?

http://www.railway-technology.com/features/featurerails-adaptable-carriage-heading-for-trials-5811719/

The idea: to create a carriage that can be configured to carry passengers or freight when required, easing road congestion and cutting emissions. The system works by allowing seats and tables to be automatically stowed to create space for ‘low density, high value’ packages and other cargo that would, otherwise, travel by road. And so the Adaptable Carriage seating system was born, which brings us back to van Romunde’s presentation in Birmingham.

42 Technology says the reconfiguration process takes under three minutes and is fully automated. The end result – from 20 rows of seats in a typical passenger carriage, with four seats per row – is a space equivalent to that of an articulated lorry. Seats and tables are connected together and can be moved along the length of the carriage. Also note that it is configured to carry only passengers or freight, not a mix of the two at the same time, and can be retrofitted into existing carriages, designers say.

 

[LowLevel]

EMT's HSTs and 222s carry small volume high speed parcels traffic, it can work with a can do attitude.

 

[furnessvale]

EMT's HSTs and 222s carry small volume high speed parcels traffic, it can work with a can do attitude.

Unless things have changed recently it is already working.

http://freightinthecity.com/2015/07...w-emission-final-mile-vehicles-set-to-expand/

This new seating arrangement could be useful for converting a (part) coach off peak when not needed for passengers.

 

[PeterC]

It isn't just a matter of folding the seats, the accomodation needs to be secured. Rather than any expensive folding seats why not some ordinary tip up seats in the lockable compartment creating a potential bike or buggy space when in passenger use?

 

[dubscottie]

It isn't just a matter of folding the seats, the accomodation needs to be secured. Rather than any expensive folding seats why not some ordinary tip up seats in the lockable compartment creating a potential bike or buggy space when in passenger use?

Tip up seats inside a lockable compartment... Where have I seen that before. Ah yes.. The class 150.

 

[wellhouse]

Tip up seats inside a lockable compartment... Where have I seen that before. Ah yes.. The class 150.

And the original Class 319s had tip up bench seats in a lockble area for mail behind one driving cab. There was a Royal Mail logo by the door, but I don't believe they were actually ever used.

 

[pdq]

Some 158s still have the lockable roller blind over the luggage rack. Were they ever used?

Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

 

[SpacePhoenix]

When I joined the railways as a guard/senior conductor 6 years ago, it stated in my contract that it was part of my role to transport parcels when necessary.

Is that a standard clause in the contract of any guard at any TOC?

 

[plymothian]

Is that a standard clause in the contract of any guard at any TOC?

I think it is, as it would cover the TOC's internal mail delivery eg publicity posters and lost property.
GWR has designated daily 'mail trains' for this.

 

[DarloRich]

didn't we once carry parcels on trains..................

 

[matt_world2004]

I know British Rail used to carry mail traffic on scheduled passenger services. Do Any TOC's do the same? It seems like Mail would add little additional cost when appended to passenger services . Eurostar and Intercity services would be able to reach many distribution points quicker than a lorry would.

 

[EM2]

EMT had an experiment about three years ago on HST services, but it appears not to have been very successful.

 

[broadgage]

IIRC, GWR are carrying fresh fish to Paddington on scheduled passenger services.
Not certain if this counts though as I think it may be specific to one fish supplier and not a general parcel service.

 

[jimm]

InterCity RailFreight works with both EMT and GWR.

http://intercityrailfreight.com

 

[cf111]

The southbound Inverness sleeper carries fish every night, if that counts!

 

[CharlieSpotted]

I have a vague recollection of seeing something on the news recently (possibly local news here in Birmingham) about a company which had a plan to put parcels on passenger trains. The report showed some adapted carriage where the seats folded together and cages of parcels could be loaded behind them. I think the plan was for it to be used on late-night trains which have excess capacity.

Unfortunately, much as I've tried, I can't find any link for it.

Edit: Haven't found the report I saw, but have found this from "The Engineer". I'm pretty sure it's the same one that was in the news report:

https://www.theengineer.co.uk/adaptable-train-carriage-ready-for-uk-trials/

 

[kentman]

I used to catch on off peak commuter service that also did the internal post run for the stations down the line. He would take over a row of seats for his mail pouches and posters and hand them over to a waiting platform staff at the stops. A bit greener than driving a van around London I suppose.

 

[andrewkeith5]

Most long distance mail is routed via air nowadays - much quicker than trains!

Royal Mail operate a hub at East Midlands Airport, with (if I remember correctly) flights to and from Bournemouth, Exeter, Stansted, Edinburgh and Belfast - which pretty much covers it (if you conveniently ignore Wales and the more remote areas of Scotland, which can be connected by Road or other means relatively easily). Some used to be operated by Titan Airways, not sure if they still are. Road travel from those hubs to most localities is likely to be quicker than any train could manage, and more reliable given the commonality of late night engineering works.

Of course, British Airways aircraft all carry the Royal Mail logo too

Given all the other postal firms are run off the back of existing logistics organisations, I'm fairly certain that there's no regular agreement for any postal service by rail unless it's a small/local/ad-hoc affair.

EDIT: Looks like my memory needs updating - they seem to have a much more comprehensive operation now:

The Royal Mail domestic air network at EMA consists of 11 outward flights to the more distant UK airports serving the remoter areas of the country. Boeing 737 aircraft operate 8 of the flights with smaller aircraft used on flights to the Isle of Man and Aberdeen in the North of Scotland. This network is vital to ensure first class mail is delivered next day throughout the UK.

These 11 aircraft also bring mail in for transfer to 75 major mail centres. Around 50 tonnes of mail is received for inward transfer each night. That is about 1.1 million letters and packets.

 

[Llanigraham]

I'm sure I saw a red Royal Mail train coming out of London when I was down there last month.

 

[CharlieSpotted]

I'm sure I saw a red Royal Mail train coming out of London when I was down there last month.

I think I've seen them in Stafford not long ago?

 

[furnessvale]

I'm sure I saw a red Royal Mail train coming out of London when I was down there last month.

There are about 5 mail trains a day on the WCML and one on the ECML.

Between them they carry considerably more than the 50 tons carried daily by air.

 

[Trainfan344]

There are still some mail trains that operate on the West Coast Mainline, using class 325 mail units. I'm sure other posters will be able to give more details!

 

[furnessvale]

didn't we once carry parcels on trains..................

We did, and very successfully too, using free space on the trains that was otherwise empty. The customers brought their parcels to the station and collected them at the other end. Net cost to the railway almost zero.

The some bright spark decided to bring in collection and delivery vans and costs started mounting.

Then an even brighter spark decided what the railway really needed was to hire in AIRCRAFT to serve remoter areas and costs went through the roof!

Red Star shut down facing mounting losses. I wonder why!

 

[Llanigraham]

So that seems to disprove what was said by AndrewK5 above