Par to Newquay on Summer Saturdays

[dannypye9999]

Why are there ever no stopping services between Par and Newquay on summer Saturdays? All is okay on a Monday to Friday and also on Winter Saturdays there are stoppers, but its always on summer Saturdays they are withdrawn from service. Why is this and how do First Great Western get away with it? You'd think that because its the Summer season that more people would travel along this route, especially with it being a popular seaside destination aswell as it being on the busiest weekend day. Couldnt XC step in and have their voyagers calling at Columb Road and Quintrel Downs?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Why St Columb Road and Quintrell Downs in particular? Judging by figures they are two of the quietest stations on the line (Bugle has eight times the passengers of Quintrell Downs for example!), and if the line is worked to absolute capacity in high summer, wouldn't stopping at the intermediate halts (which get about 12,000 people a year between the five of them) reduce the number of services available to cater Newquay for what would be a handful of people. Further, wouldn't there be alternative transport available for the local community - I'm unsure of bus provision but it must be easier to access without rail from the local villages in Cornwall than it is from London - and also a lot more lucrative financially for the TOCs to focus on the inter-city market too!

 

[Ash Bridge]

A possible reason is a 220/1 is too long for the intermediate stations/halts, also if it's travelled all the way from e.g. Manchester you are going to add even more time to what is already a very long journey.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Having a bit of a mooch about Google Maps and Traveline now - all bar Luxulyan are near an A road, and all of them then bar Bugle are on a direct one towards Newquay. Further, Quintrell Downs and St Column also have an hourly bus service to Newquay with WG's 586 Newquay-Truro.

 

[dannypye9999]

A possible reason is a 220/1 is too long for the intermediate stations/halts, also if it's travelled all the way from e.g. Manchester you are going to add even more time to what is already a very long journey.

I remember in BR days HSTs used to stop at these two stops on Summer Saturdays Manchester services.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Trouble is on today's Railway I think things are somewhat different to B.R. Days.

 

[30907]

Why are there ever no stopping services between Par and Newquay on summer Saturdays?You'd think that because its the Summer season that more people would travel along this route, especially with it being a popular seaside destination aswell as it being on the busiest weekend day.

I don't think there's a huge flow of daytrippers to NQY from the intermediate stations even during the week, and the through workings cater for the flows from further afield. It's many years since there was any purely local service on a Saturday, bar a couple of random-looking stops at Quintrel Downs IIRC.

 

[The Planner]

Been a while since I timed along there but isn't it effectively one train in section after Goonbarrow? Is it possible to get everything down there on a summer Saturday if you had all stops in, it doesn't help that HSTs are restricted down there.

 

[TEW]

The line beyond Goonbarrow Junction, including Newquay station itself is single track, believe it uses a train staff, so no option to have more than one service along there at a time. HSTs are much less restricted nowadays, timings have been sped up considerably over the last couple of years. None of the platforms are long enough to hold Voyagers and they don't have SDO so the only services which could call are the HSTs. They just aren't really busy enough to justify it though. All services already call at Quintrell Downs heading out of Newquay for operation purposes only, as the driver has to operate the level crossing controls.

 

[TheWalrus]

It's because there's not enough capacity currently for the stoppers and the inter-city services so the halts get missed out.

 

[David Goddard]

You would need to reinstate the second platform at Newquay (like they are doing at Whitby) in order to boost the capacity and run stoppers as well.
Not out of the question but they would struggle to justify it.

 

[The Planner]

Is that true though? What is the service level commitment on it? If they are fulfilling that then they are home and hosed. Start lobbying for a change to the SLC if it is a such a big problem.

 

[TEW]

Barring some pretty unlikely investment in the infrastructure between Goonbarrow Junction and Newquay the only way to serve the intermediate stations would be a reduction in the direct services from further afield. So there'll be winners and losers.

 

[dk1]

As far back as i remember the local service has always been knocked on the head on Summer Saturdays & judging by the usage figures for the intermediate stations its no surprise.

 

[yorksrob]

Couldn't they serve the intermediate stations using the guards local door ? Would seem better than leaving out the intermediate stops on a Saturday.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

My Summer 1983 BR timetable shows 5 non-stop and 7 stoppers Par-Newquay and 3 non-stop and 8 stoppers Newquay-Par, though that strongly implies there was more double track, crossing loops and / or additional platforms at Newquay which have all long-since vanished.

Summer 1990 shows 3 non-stop, 1 all stations, 2 St Column Rd and Quintrell Downs and 1 St Column Road only Par-Newquay; and 4 non-stop, 1 all stations, 1 all stations bar Luxulyan and 1 Quintrell Downs and St Column Road only Newquay-Par.

 

[TEW]

Couldn't they serve the intermediate stations using the guards local door ? Would seem better than leaving out the intermediate stops on a Saturday.

Voyagers are unable to call at stations which can't accommodate the full length of the train as they have no facility to open just one door. (It is possible to lock the rear carriage entirely out of use, but even that wouldn't be enough.) So you're only option is to call HSTs. It is entirely possible to stop FGW HSTs at all the stations and use the SDO system to only open a couple of doors but it just isn't worth it. None of the stations are particularly busy, they're all request stops apart from Quintrell Downs away from Newquay only which is a full stop for operational purposes. The amount on energy used stopping an HST 5 times between Newquay and Par, and the time penalty on what are otherwise very quick services to London, skipping out many of the normal stations en route, is completely out of proportionate to the benefit of stopping at the stations.

 

[Greenback]

My Summer 1983 BR timetable shows 5 non-stop and 7 stoppers Par-Newquay and 3 non-stop and 8 stoppers Newquay-Par, though that strongly implies there was more double track, crossing loops and / or additional platforms at Newquay which have all long-since vanished.

Summer 1990 shows 3 non-stop, 1 all stations, 2 St Column Rd and Quintrell Downs and 1 St Column Road only Par-Newquay; and 4 non-stop, 1 all stations, 1 all stations bar Luxulyan and 1 Quintrell Downs and St Column Road only Newquay-Par.

The layout at Newquay was reduced t one platform in 1987. There was also double track on run in to Newquay, across the viaduct. I would guess that was removed at the same time. it was definitely double in 1981!

 

[yorksrob]

Voyagers are unable to call at stations which can't accommodate the full length of the train as they have no facility to open just one door. (It is possible to lock the rear carriage entirely out of use, but even that wouldn't be enough.)

Sounds like a Voyager design flaw to me in that case.

 

[30907]

The layout at Newquay was reduced t one platform in 1987. There was also double track on run in to Newquay, across the viaduct. I would guess that was removed at the same time. it was definitely double in 1981!

The loop and box at St Dennis Jn were taken out sometime around then too.

 

[dk1]

Voyagers are unable to call at stations which can't accommodate the full length of the train as they have no facility to open just one door. (It is possible to lock the rear carriage entirely out of use, but even that wouldn't be enough.) So you're only option is to call HSTs. It is entirely possible to stop FGW HSTs at all the stations and use the SDO system to only open a couple of doors but it just isn't worth it. None of the stations are particularly busy, they're all request stops apart from Quintrell Downs away from Newquay only which is a full stop for operational purposes. The amount on energy used stopping an HST 5 times between Newquay and Par, and the time penalty on what are otherwise very quick services to London, skipping out many of the normal stations en route, is completely out of proportionate to the benefit of stopping at the stations.

Even before the current silly rule where all released doors must be on the platform, Voyager operated trains ceased to call at Dawlish Warren wheras HSTs (that didnt have CDO then) still did as had Grandfather rights.

 

[TEW]

There are three Voyager operated services which call at Dawlish Warren now. Summer Saturdays only:
1M37 0839 Plymouth-Manchester Piccadilly
1S45 0920 Plymouth-Aberdeen
1V55 1207 Manchester Piccadilly-Paignton

The platforms at Dawlish Warren are long enough to accommodate a 5-car Class 221.

 

[shaun]

Virgin Crosscountry stopped their HSTs there in the late 90s. The reason they don't now is probably like most small Cornish stations, due to the alternative bus service being more frequent and convenient.

 

[Martin_1981]

The layout at Newquay was reduced t one platform in 1987. There was also double track on run in to Newquay, across the viaduct. I would guess that was removed at the same time. it was definitely double in 1981!

As a consequence, locomotive hauled trains on holiday specials from Padddington, Birmingham and the North could no longer go to Newquay, unless they were top n tailed, therefore HST's were used on these services from 1988.

 

[dk1]

Virgin Crosscountry stopped their HSTs there in the late 90s. The reason they don't now is probably like most small Cornish stations, due to the alternative bus service being more frequent and convenient.

Will only take the government or Cornwall CC to stop free bus travel for pensioners & most buses will stop overnight.

 

[Taunton]

My Summer 1983 BR timetable shows 5 non-stop and 7 stoppers Par-Newquay and 3 non-stop and 8 stoppers Newquay-Par, though that strongly implies there was more double track, crossing loops and / or additional platforms at Newquay which have all long-since vanished.
.

Even back in the old days the Newquay branch had a strange combination of signalling points. There were loops not at stations, stations without loops, double track at random that finished in the middle of nowhere, etc.

 

[Cliveblackpool]

The closure of Newquay signalbox and the imo unnecessary removal of the crossover ground frame between Platform ! and 2 has caused this problem. St Dennis junction at an earlier date has not helped.
There was regularly during the day 3 trains in Newquay station. One train leaving as one arrived. The Western track on the viaduct was used for Platform 3. A local service would run as well as the through trains. The local service was reduced, and at one point in the day there was a 6 hour gap for an up train at St Columb Road.
The Summer service timings are not so popular as a result of the severely limited paths available.
In the 70s I remember 3 excursion trains (Saga) on a Friday around 8pm leaving Par - Newquay 20 minutes apart, long trains with a mixture of red, blue, & green coaches.

 

[Greenback]

It's sad that the rationalisation occurred just before the attitude towards railways began to change. At the time, I suppose no one could foresee the increase in popularity of Newquay, with increasing numbers of young people, surfers, and party animals all being drawn to the town in the 1990's (my brother being one of them).

Having seen the numbers of people boarding and alighting Newquay services at both Par and Newquay over the past few years, outside of the high peak, the line could definitely use more capacity. Even in late May the HST I caught was busy. But I think that the main problem with local services is that the intermediate halts are very quiet.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Apologies for taking us away from the original question, but on the only occasion I managed to travel on the branch (whilst on holiday in Cornwall in I think June 1973) the local Newquay to Par service I travelled on was a Class 120 Swindon Crosscountry 3 car dmu. Complete with small buffet counter in centre car & 1st class accommodation. The return train was a Class 119 Gloucester Crosscountry 3 car dmu with a very similar interior layout, both extremely comfortable trains & a far cry to what operates the stopping service today.I remember also all the steam era infrastructure was still in place then (semaphores, signal boxes, loops etc.)But at the end of the day at least there is still a train service and we should be grateful for that. (Have some slides somewhere from that trip, if I can find them I will post them)

 

[RPI]

Other than Bugle, the rest of the intermediate stations are very lightly used, and Bugle isn't anything special, you probably pick up 3 or 4 people on each train and that's about it, if nothing else though on a Saturday the last train out and back should stop as its a 150!