Paper Timetables - do we still need them?

[RedKing]

To answer the question of this thread, the fact the only argument to the contrary is "because that's how we used to do it" suggests the answer should be a resounding "no, we do not need them"

 

[Trainbike46]

What are people's thoughts on printed timetables on paper?

Do we need them still, do you think?

A thought for discussion?

Personally I like printed timetables, and find them helpful for understanding patterns and options in ways that journey planners often aren't. I guess it doesn't have to be printed for that, and a fixed pdf also works. I was very disappointed when eurostar stopped publishing pdf timetables for that reason.

The great advantage of printed timetables (for everyone except the operator) is that they provide clear evidence of the timetable that was advertised. None of this "timetable of the day" nonsense. Anything digital can be altered with greater or lesser ease depending on exactly who is wanting to alter what - something already printed on paper and distributed in bulk is much harder to suppress. Many years ago on a Bank Holiday Monday, BR had to fork out a taxi fare from Temple Meads to Parkway for me because I could wave the timetable under someone's nose and say "where does it say BHX for this train" (a connecting dmu into the Swansea - York train at Parkway, IIRC)? - in these days of digital timetables I doubt I could provide proof if I hadn't previously obtained an itinerary. As with the map vs Sat-Nav debate, digital planners are certainly useful - but a "proper" timetable (whether printed or no) has its uses and if I had to choose only one, it would be the traditional timetable every time.

A very good point.

I once ended up in a delay repay fight with WMT where I was unable to get any journey planner to produce a journey option that met my ticket restrictions. So I contacted WMT via twitter and asked them for advice for how to do my journey. They suggested a route, and I asked them how long that should take. When I made that journey and the Rail Replacement bus took way longer than the advice on twitter said it would, I applied for delay repay. WMT refused on the grounds that the timings achieved matched some nebulous timetable somewhere that I hadn't been able to find anywhere, the twitter staff clearly hadn't seen either, and the delay repay / customer service people could not produce "because the engineering works have finished so the adjusted engineering works timetable is no longer available". If I had been able to look at a pdf or a paper timetable I would have been in a much better position, either because I would have known what my actual journey time would be, or because I had proof that WMT was in the wrong.

I'm sure similar situations must happen to other people.

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An even bigger problem is having to flick through to a timetable on a completely different page when making connections. There's multiple examples but a journey from The Cambrian Coast to Aberystwyth changing at Dovey Junction / Machynlleth is one that came to mind.

I'd plan this by using Realtimetrains and clicking on the interchange station, which would then show me all the services around that time. Much easier, especially when making multiple connections.

(I should add I would love to have a national timetable book like they used to produce, but I'd use it more for pleasure than planning!)

Realtimetrains is an amazing resource, that is for sure!

However, printed, or at least fixed pdf versions, which are available with a history of older version ideally, can be very useful at times

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 May 2025 ==

What about if you're out and lose signal on your phone or have no battery, but the timetable for that day is amended and isn't printed in a paper format

Well, timetables shoudn't be changed without good reason.

If there are engineering works, or on the day disruption information at the station would suffice. If there is unexpected disruption, I find most journey planners pretty much useless anyway, as they often won't be updated with things like ticket acceptance, the most recent cancelling/uncancelling of services, what alternatives are available, etc. For that, you often still need stations screens, announcements, or station or onboard staff.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 May 2025 ==

This is one of the aspects of British railway we should be proud of. TOC and PTE (or whatever they are called nowadays) sites still overwhelmingly offer printed timetable formats. I'm a bit annoyed at TfL for not doing so - information transparency shouldn't be left to the goodness of the heart of Robert Munster.

TfL offers pdf timetables for some services

London Overground: https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/london-overground/london-overground-timetables
Elizabeth line: https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/elizabeth-line/elizabeth-line-timetables
Tube working timetables: https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/publications-and-reports/working-timetables


Unfortunately, there don't appear to be public facing pdf timetables for bus, tube, or dlr. There should be, even if it was something like the tube guid that is produced for the metropolitan line.

tbh, I think writing "at least every ten minutes", as lothian buses do on their timetables, to be perfectly acceptable for buses, and similar applies to tube and highly frequent tram services.

 

[The exile]

tbh, I think writing "at least every ten minutes", as lothian buses do on their timetables, to be perfectly acceptable for buses, and similar applies to tube and highly frequent tram services.

As long as the interval is genuinely less than 10 minutes and a rough indication of journey time is given, I agree. It is of course difficult with urban buses as they are so subject to traffic congestion.

 

[Trainbike46]

To answer the question of this thread, the fact the only argument to the contrary is "because that's how we used to do it" suggests the answer should be a resounding "no, we do not need them"

A bunch of reasons for why timetables in printed or pdf form, all coming up upthread of your post:
- A reference of what was planned in case of a dispute
- A better overview of options than many journey planners
- It gives passengers a better understanding of the service offering, and therefore enables them to make better decisions on journeys and routes

That hardly matches what you say!

As long as the interval is genuinely less than 10 minutes and a rough indication of journey time is given, I agree. It is of course difficult with urban buses as they are so subject to traffic congestion.

what I think is key, and what Lothian does (or at least did back in 2019!) was that if it was planned to be less frequent than every ten minutes, exact times would be given, and the first and last few services were always listed. A rough indication of journey times would be useful, but I don't remember if that was provided.

 

[HSTEd]

I must admit I am something of a fan of the continental style of paper timetables posted in stations, showing the destinations of trains that depart by platform.

I find them significantly easier to read than the UK ones, although I think they'd likely require more paper.

As for printable ones, they are only marginally useful now - but I share concerns that the railway likes to use the "timetable of the day" excuse to get out of its obligations.

 

[topydre]

So I can use electronic timetables as I'm in an urban area.

The main problem, on a Wales level, is a lack of phone signal across large parts of the country. Certainly TfW have made great strides on providing digital information to their stations, but people appreciate having a current timetable at home, before they travel to the railway station

 

[WAB]

So I can use electronic timetables as I'm in an urban area.

The main problem, on a Wales level, is a lack of phone signal across large parts of the country. Certainly TfW have made great strides on providing digital information to their stations, but people appreciate having a current timetable at home, before they travel to the railway station

I'm not convinced by this. 4G coverage in Wales has come a long way in the last decade or so - I suspect most people in Wales will have access to the internet in and around their homes.

 

[Harpo]

I'm not convinced by this. 4G coverage in Wales has come a long way in the last decade or so

Not everywhere in Wales. I’m used to my signal going from 4G to E in one town I visit.

(Something I reflected on recently while streaming live rugby on my phone with a perfect 5G signal 3 miles off of the French coast.)